What cart. for the Reed 3P?


Just found a Reed 3P 12 inch  arm to go with my Dr Feickert Firebird table- What cart. do you rec. in the $2500- $3500 Used range- I was offered a Lyra Etna which was on the Reed - Was also thinking about The Soundsmith Hyperion II but open to any suggestions from the experts!! As always thanks so much for the advice!!!

fluffers

Showing 6 responses by rauliruegas

Dear lewm: At 15grs. your LZS  resonate at 6hz, not so good, and at 12grs. the frequency is a little better: 7hz.

With that cartridge as higher is the tonearm effective mass as lower is the frequency resonance frequency: not good for the listening quality level .

Anyway, the important issue is that you are very satisfied and this is your main target.

Btw, in that resonance frequency regards the 3P/Etna is in the " ideal " frequency range., good.

regards and enjoy the music,
R.
Dear CH: I think that this audio subject is not about to trust on something or not. It is just mathematics and you can use any calculator over the net and will gives you the same resonance frequency ( 6 hz. ). 

What we can't trust is in a test record that comes with " natural " errors " from the recording process and during playback. This is what I don't trust, mathematics are just mathematics and here it's not a " rocket science ".

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
ch.: """  And if you're measuring, don't trust the voice announcements on the Hi-Fi News test record. They're quite a ways off. """

that's what you can read in the Steve Hoffman site through a post in a thread spoken about.

R.
Dear lewm: I use my Stantons and Pickering cartridges with ou that brush too. In theory the brush in this type of cartridges ( Shure too. ) helps to damp in some way but even that I don't like to use with.

Now, perhaps you are rigth about that the actul compliance is lower than specs and could be that way before the cartridge suspension settle down where then could be higher than specs but we can't be sure about.

Your experiences with the Acutex 320 is not different from my experiences with high mass tonearms ( I was in love with. ) but there are several reasons why is that way and first than all is that the 320 performs great in any tonearm because is a great design but ( always exist a " but " with me. ) does not means is " optimal " set up, just like us.

You, me and almost all audiophiles are accustom to very high distortions ( every kind ) through our audio life experiences.
We are accustom to because just from the begin many of us were oriented ( example ) to use tube technology on electronics when in those old times normally was acceptable 5% of distortion in that kind of electronics and the very best designs came with a " low " 1% on that distortion figure and this was not the only high distortion source in the system because in those old times no ones cares about Baerwald/Löfgren alignments in tonearm/cartridge, no one spoken about and all our cartridge set ups were way off to precision and all those set ups were surrounded by very high distortions only for that factor.
Additional does not exist TT plattforms as ( example ) Vibraplane or the like to low vibrations/distortions and everything were picked-up by our cartridges and what about room treatment?  that basically did not exist in those old times. Even how to take care about cleaned job with cartridge stylus and LP's were " arcaic "

I live with all those and fortunatelly " things " improved but in some of us that " distortions cancer " never was totally recover and like  it or not still lives in our mind.

Today you can read through different threads and posts all over the net thinks like:

"" I love this " sweet " sound  or I like more " romantic " sound. I don't like it's so bright.  """ 

and many expressions like those when the MUSIC has a natural agresiveness. It's easy to corroborate this we have just to hear at 2-3 m. a player playing a horn or piano at natural levels and we will know for sure that that swetness or romatic expressions just does not exist.

In the other side that we can't hear or be aware of distortions that does not means can't exist. We don't need to see that the tonearm/cartridge skips to know that the resonance frequency is out of the ideal range, problem is that that is happening at microscopic levels down the stylus/grooves and generating distortions.

Not always lowering distortions like us, especially at the begin with,  till we learn and over time we now accustom our " mind " to those lower audio system kind of quality performance levels.
It's a time learning system, it does not works in " automatic " because sometimes we can like those lower distortions ( depends of the kind of those distortions. ) and sometimes we take longer time for not only like it but to know why we like it.

Is a long time learning process and not easy process with no specific rules to follow other that what other people learned and share and our self experiences. We need tennacity about and never give up.

Anyway, good listening.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
Dear lewm: That was only an example to show that we have a heavy " audio history "  of the kind of sound we begin and followed listening in our system. Tubes electronics is not the only source about I posted other examples and exist many more. The audio history was made it by that kind of facts and we can't change it. The subject hereb is not tubes, so stay calm.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.


Dear the kong:  The " ideal " frequency resonance range of 8hz-12hz is for some gentlemans not the ideal range for example: G.Merril ( of Merrill TT and AR ones. ) had an explanation that the range should be 15hz-18hz and other took 8hz-10hz.

Anyway, when we make the calculations for our tonearm/cartridge combination that calculation gives us the theoretical resonance frequency that normally is out of reality because almost all tonearm manufacturers gives the tonearm effective mass figure with out taking in count the tonearm counterweight position with that cartridge and normally too we don't take in count the weight of the hardware to mount the cartridge but exist an additional factor to take in count and that's the real cartridge compliance, this is under playback and through the time. Those factors moves the real resonance frequency on our tonearm/cartridge combinations and your Vibraplane can't helps here.

That kind of TT damping and other kind of TT damping ways can't helps to additional ssues happening down the LP/stylus/TT:

- if we have active subwoofers in our system we know that in the LP recording comes very low bass frequency lower than 10hz. Example: some London/Decca old recordings made it/recorded in the Royal Opera house comes with intermitent very low bass non musical/no music content sounds that happens came from the London subway that pass under or nearest that Hall.
In some of the RCA reissues by Chesky recordings happens the same for the same reason.

But the subway sound goes lower and affect that cartridge/tonearm resonanse frequency that affect what we are hearing because as music information " distortions " generates harmonics too.

- exist more subsonics signals in the LPs that we can imagine and are affecting and degrading what we are listening.

- something that TT damping can't helps is the " distortions/vibrations " coming from the platter/bearing ( even in air bearing designs. ) because any body/platter in movement generate ( because that movement/dynamic mass. ) vibrations/micro-vibrations transmitted throught the platter spindle and platter surface to the LP and disturb the cartridge ridding.

all those and others are focus to exite that cartridge/tonearm resonance frequency during playback and the problem is that we can't see it ( almost all happens at microscopic levels. ) even we are unaware of its damage to the musical signal.

Obviously that we must work to damp perfectly at each of those system links and those distortions sources and one way to start is try to stay between that resonance frequency range.

We can't avoid those degrading musical signal sources but at least try to have it at minimum elsewhere.

The real " magic " ( if any ) for a better quality level audio system performance is exactly that: every kind and elsewhere distortions keep it at minimum but this is more easy to say it than to do it because the first issue is to identify in precisily way where are those distortions sources.

Yes, the analog experience  is a lovely one but full of imperfections as no other music home reproduction medium.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.