@secretguy ”Putting rap and jazz in the same thought tells me all I need to know about your tastes.”
Why so nasty?
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@secretguy
”Civilians.”
Really?
I too am a lifelong trained musician, and have been a professional one for about 25 years.
On top of being a “non-civilian,” I’m also a lifelong grumpy, cynical, judgmental person with no compunction about issuing scathing judgement on bad music. I’ve gotten into trouble with plenty of folks for crapping on the music they like (it appears many people consider harsh judgement on the music they like as an affront to their very character, which is inexplicable to me, hence the ‘getting into trouble’ part)
However, even I would be unable to use the word, “civilian” in this context with a straight face. That is one unintentionally-hilarious, pompous use of a word.
Us musicians ain’t Navy Seals or Green Berets.
Saying, “I really dislike (blank)…” is different from saying, “you like (blank) so therefore your opinion is inherently invalid.”
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I love non-apologies. So mature and full of grace.
It’s also very interesting when one regularly participates in activities they go out of their way to describe as useless.
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jpwarren58 hit it on the head.
The number of vaccines these anti-vaxxers got as kids…how many? Half a dozen, roughly?
Aaaaaaaand….what happened to them? Nothing.
Except, of course, they got to spend their life not having to worry about rabies, measles, mumps, rubella, tetanus, to name a few bad things.
What a drag it must have been for these folks to live in a world without dangerous infectious diseases.
What changed? Did science all of a sudden become bad? Did scientists all of a sudden become inept and nefarious?
If these people are so smart, know so much more about science than the experts and have such incorruptible personal integrity, surely they have no time for health care facilities.
Surely their superior knowledge and integrity means they would never seek to occupy a hospital bed that could otherwise be occupied by one of the ignoramus suckers who were stupid enough to get sick.
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Really Smart Guy:
“If everyone read the same poorly written, grievance-spewing drivel that I read on the internet, the world would be a better place.
Poorly written drivel that offers zero solutions, that pretends to care about the common man, but is just the internet equivalent of a cult pamphlet handed out in front of a 7-11. That’s the ticket, gang.”
Should some deadly virus infect Really Smart Guy in the future, I’m sure he wouldn’t go clamoring to the nearest health care facility (excuse me, ‘dungeon of poison-peddling bureaucrats’…my bad…) and beg the health care workers, “give me everything ya got!! I don’t wanna die!!!”
Delicious.
The same Really Smart Guy who thinks the vaccine is bad for ya, goes groveling to the hospital begging for anything…ANYTHING!!….just keep me alive!!!
“Well, Mr. Really Smart Guy, we should talk about the nature of this life-saving treatment…”.
- “…I DON’T CARE!! Just give me whatever ya got!! PLEEEEASE!!!”
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I like manners as much as the next guy.
The little things in life add up.
But ending everything with “all the best wishes to you,” and dispensing hollow, mushy-gushy, superficial expressions of amiability does not exculpate the other 98% of your speech.
The other 98% being didactic, presumptuous, and patronizing.
I do, however, appreciate someone who is graceful and contrite.
We could use more of that from adults in modern society.
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@nonoise
But ending everything with “all the best wishes to you,” and dispensing hollow, mushy-gushy, superficial expressions of amiability does not exculpate the other 98% of your speech.
The other 98% being didactic, presumptuous, and patronizing.
“So you take exceptions to my response but not to the bile that started it all? Thanks for letting me know where you stand on this so I can easily dismiss what you said.”
- Based on your post here, I honestly don’t know what you took from my post, or how you were able to construe it as even being remotely directed at you.
I was really just agreeing with you, tagging another bit on to what you posted previously.
I get that cyber-speak has no “tone,” and misunderstandings are common and understandable, but why this bit: “…letting me know where you stand so I can easily dismiss what you said.” ??
Even if that was directed at you, what’s with the inclination to “easily dismiss” someone? Even if it was directed at you, it wasn’t even nasty, disrespectful, loony, etc.
Wouldn’t a reasoned rebuttal be the way over “easily dismissing” someone?
Re-reading what I wrote, I’m guessing when I used the impersonal “your,” you somehow thought that was towards you personally? Perhaps because you have “all the best” at the end there? Just guessing here.
Yeah, I really wasn’t even directing anything at you. If anything, simpatico.
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@nonoise It’s all good. Misunderstandings are easy enough in spoken word interactions, let alone in cyber-speak.
I feel puerile using emojis, maybe that’s something I should get over, as I’m pretty sure mitigating these situations is what they were invented for 🤔 😃 😒
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Hey, @nonoise, remember what I said about people that say not-nice things but think it’s all ameliorated if they tag some shallow niceties to the end?
I’ve got a tragicomically extreme example found on this very page.
Instead of speech that is merely “didactic, presumptuous and patronizing” being lazily “sweetened” with something “nice” like “all blessings and best of luck to you,” or whatever, I’ve got an example of speech that is truly awful, disgraceful and embarrassingly-inaccurate with a nice, cute little send-off on the end.
Note Exhibit A:
“Buggery and sodomy is a mortal sin against God, if you believe in Him.
If you don't you risk AIDS, HEP C and a host of other LGBTQI+++ diseases.
God Bless!”
Good thing this person said, “God Bless!” at the end.
I guess all of the stuff preceding that send-off, stuff that constitutes some of the least intelligent, most hateful bile one would ever have the misfortune to read, was all wiped clean by that.
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Man-alive.
You can’t make this stuff up, this comedy being spewed on this thread.
Reading these brain-meltingly stupid posts about “science,” written with inexplicable, undeserved authority and confidence: priceless.
I wonder if these same folks “question” the validity of:
- average life expectancy greater than 36
- indoor plumbing
- electricity
- modern technology (you know…all this ridiculously amazing sci-if movie stuff we enjoy on a daily basis, stuff we dreamed about actually becoming real stuff when we were kids).
- people that may figure out how to deflect an asteroid that could wipe out all life as we know it
- people that may figure out how to mitigate life-threatening climate change and ozone depletion
Yeah…let’s all stroke our chins and furrow our brow while we “question” this stuff…
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The beauty of a free country is one can believe anything they want.
They can say and do anything lawful they desire.
In order for society to function, certain basics (facts and reality) have to be established for constructive debate to occur.
This is where we go astray.
If one wants to believe in any silly thing entirely devoid of logic…whatever, man.
Go nuts. You do you.
When action, measurable harm, is done to the real world (people and things), and these silly fairy tales are used as the justification, we got serious problems.
When two people can’t agree on what constitutes fact and reality, i.e. the sky is blue and the world is round, there is zero chance for positive, constructive action among society.
How does one debate someone that says they “fight for the Constitution” in one breath and then say “the separation of church and state is junk” in another? How does one debate someone that says, “I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ” and then effectively say, “I support violence, hatred, corporate power and the prioritization of the wealthy over the poor” in another?
At that point, such a person’s moral credibility and persuasiveness is zero.
I’ll close with a cliché bandied about this very forum often:
you’re entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts.
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@waytoomuchstuff
“The way we handle this defines who WE are, more so than who THEY are.”
Excellent sentence.
Excellent points made in general.
What I will challenge is this idea:
“They are NOT dening science, they are denying the observations and conclusions presented by YOUR scientists. "Science deniers" is an inaccurate statement from those who have done their due diligence and reached a different conclusion for the health of themselves and their families and, yes, it’s impact on those around them.”
…coexisting with this idea in the same message:.
“Differentiating between truth and lies matters in a sane society.”
A contradiction?
If truth and lies matters, how can a person telling lies (easily disprovable bunk found on the internet) be just as valid as a huge body of all-world experts who have reached an overwhelming consensus opinion?
We’re at square one here; “my ignorance is just as important as your truth.”
Patently incorrect.
When you’re wrong, you’re wrong.
Having myself or loved ones harmed by someone who’s patently wrong…
that dog won’t hunt.
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@tunefuldude I don’t think a post on an online forum “exposes someone for who/what they really are.” At all.
Far more complicated than that.
People that believe (and regurgitate) patently untrue, wildly stupid things can also be stand-up citizens.
People that post a few dozen words on a forum are only showing the tiniest fraction of “what they really are.”
Also far more complicated than you make it out to be:
“we the people have been literally turned against each other as a direct function of all the nonsense.”
I’m not sure what is meant by, “the nonsense.” That’s a pretty vague summation of the cause of a highly polarized society.
While agenda-driven media can negatively effect all people, of every ideological persuasion (and indeed it does), nuanced and logic-based analysis must prevail, or we’re toast.
Yes, there are too many people just guzzling the “Woke Kool-Aid.”
Yes, these people eschew logic and fairness, and then gaslight you when you address that (‘…no, no, no, that’s all just happening in your head. No one’s facing patently unfair, draconian punishment for no good reason. You’re just a white hetero male who’s finally facing your long-overdue comeuppance.”).
Yes, this is pernicious, destructive behavior.
However, as pernicious and destructive this behavior may be, as far-too-accepted-in-modern-society it may be, it doesn’t hold a candle in seriousness to:
- a concerted, unambiguous and earnest effort to destroy democracy,
- a flagrant, unambiguous vilification of science and those who want to make the planet safe and habitable for civilized human life,
- a flagrant disregard for the injuries sustained by those in the armed services (after they’ve been mere political fodder for re-election)
- a flagrant disregard for the poor and their inability to receive health care or even have a somewhat-dignified life in the richest nation on Earth.
There’s an obvious discrepancy in seriousness between the two.
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@tunefuldude I agree with a lot of what you’re saying in principle.
Yes, there are cowards hiding behind keyboards who inexplicably have achieved (undue) influence with their inane and malignant blather.
Contentedly shrugging one’s shoulders and settling comfortably into bothsiderism is not constructive either.
My opinion: being “part of the solution,” or at least being “divorced from the problem” means:
- addressing unacceptable deficiencies in our educational system, one that almost punishes educators for doing the dirty job none of us want to do and just expect to be done for us, wherein these educators have to then also suffer the indignity of people with no previous interest in education (‘lower’ or ‘higher’) ruining their capacity to actually educate (the DeSantis nightmare), or showing up to their first-and-last school board meeting ranting ignorant/hateful bile that advocates further knee-capping of our kids’ education, or, on the other side, red-eyed mob-mentality thought police who seek to end free speech, privileged/entitled 20-year-olds treated not as “students” but “customers” to be placated,
- fix an unconscionable, truly disgusting health care system,
- address equally unconscionable wealth inequality,
- stop acting like personal responsibility doesn’t exist - we’re all big boys/girls who can cut our meat and go to the bathroom all by ourselves; it isn’t the fault of media or “systemic blah-blah” that we make poor choices,
- stop attending to the trolls and illogical outrage-mongers on either side; they thrive only when payed in their only viable currency: attention,
- stop cowering in the face of illogical, fashionable dogma out of fear of draconian reprisal; you’re smart, you’re able to make a cogent argument, so use your words to disprove the illogical, easily-disprovable dogma/rhetoric that passes for substantive commentary on either side.,.
- stop justifying clearly malicious, low-brow, unfair tactics with, “well, the other side is evil, so it’s okay to completely ignore notions of civility, fairness and good faith arguments, because, after all, they are evil…”.
- don’t be conciliatory; be self-accountable and contrite. Two different things. Holding oneself accountable to high notions of fairness and intellectual rigors and admitting when you are wrong IS NOT WEAKNESS. The opposite, in fact.
For almost every time I found mahgister presumptuous and/or patronizing, there was another time he was self-accountable and genuinely contrite.
An important quality for an adult
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@tunefuldude
“Pick any time in history and there's always been around 30% of the population that's geared towards authoritarianism (in all its guises). I'm pretty sure that number was much higher when one goes further back in time and it's just a matter of time before that number goes down even further as we evolve.
I know that's being more than a bit optimistic as history shows all manner of societies collapsing after trying various forms of democracy, only to succumb to the lure of being large and in charge (it's in our DNA). But I have hope.”
This statement is defined by inherent optimism.
The “wow,” as I see it, is that one’s rebuttal to it would merely be, “wow, you’re pessimistic.”
Some folks choose to fortify their opinion with data.
Instead of just curtly and casually dismissing someone as a Negative Nancy or Debbie Downer, you have some data of your own you’d like to share…?
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@tunefuldude Positive thinking is better than negative thinking.
“Glass half-full” is great when one is seeking to seeking to avoid out-and-out despair in the face of very difficult situations.
I think of my mom during the last 5 years of her life, or the great Hank Williams song (under his persona Luke the Drifter), “Everything’s Ok.”
But Hank (or Luke the Drifter as it were) also sang about the importance of compassion, kindness, empathy, and avoiding mob mentality social dynamics that ostracize and condemn outsiders, and getting “too big for your britches.”
Caring about injustice is not “glass half-empty.”
There will always be a*s**les. Everywhere. Forever.
I’ve never understood this proclivity to whine on online forums about them.
They’re just a*s**les. One can address their erroneousness with a rebuttal, or ignore them entirely. Pretty simple stuff. Or, someone may say, “this activity’s not for me,” and stop engaging in an online forum entirely. That’s also very simple stuff.
They are not some poor, wounded victim, cast out by a virulent mob of hateful demons, when they choose to stop engaging in an online forum.
P.S. pardon me for pushing my glasses up and adjusting my pocket protector, but “contrite” means, “feeling or expressing remorse or penitence; affected by guilt.”
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Very simple:
uncivil person->civil person.
Unfortunate, but real life.
uncivil person->uncivil person.
No civilization.
Which of the two options is worse?
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Again, these ideas that “the poor good guys” get run off by “the bad guys” (on an online discussion forum? Really? Folks looking at a screen in the comfortable confines of their home? Not a very high-stakes, treacherous situation, sheesh…) is unintentionally humorous.
This talk of “thick skin,” “thin skin”…wtf?
Maybe such talk is applicable to an armed serviceperson, a miner, a Bering Sea crabber, or an inner-city public high school teacher, etc.
An online forum contributer? Not so much.
No one’s arm gets twisted to engage with an online troll.
If you do engage with an online troll, that’s your choice.
Likely, this engagement is a net loss: the troll’s undesirable behavior is reinforced, not mitigated.
Mahgister was no less likely to give his two cents on social issues than any of us.
That’s probably putting it mildly.
He wasn’t one of these posters who never speaks on the stuff, or who only chimes in with, “…boy, that elevated quickly,” or “…what does this have to do with audio?” etc. etc.
The idea that “all the political jibber-jabber drove him away” makes little sense.
Neither he nor any of us that ultimately chooses to cease a previously regular activity is necessarily some poor victim.
Some people just stop doing stuff at one time or another.
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The gun stuff is pure insanity.
Famous Einstein quote: “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
Unfortunately, it’s actually worse than insanity; it’s evil.
The unspeakable atrocities we witness in this country…beyond imagination.
The profundity of cowardice we see from the Right could not have been more excruciatingly obvious than in the security footage of the response to an active shooter in an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas last year.
The ugly truth behind, “the best remedy for a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
A lie.
A lie laid bare in plain, stomach-turning fashion.
375 “good guys with guns” stood around for AN HOUR AND FIFTEEN MINUTES listening to repeated shots fired by,
1. Bad. Guy. With. A. Gun.
375. Good. Guys. With. Guns.
Multiples fired shots, audible to the hundreds of law enforcement officers at the scene, shots fired inside classrooms with dozens of children over the span of one hour and fifteen minutes.
Again, these GOP arguments are not only amazingly stupid, but incalculably, tragically erroneous.
Now we have elected officials like Marjorie Taylor Greene who harassed a child victim of a mass shooting, following and insulting and harassing a teenager on the street for 5 minutes, hectoring a child about “good guys with guns.”
This is how low we are.
This base demon not only committed such a vile, cowardly act, but bragged of it, and this kind of hideous, evil malevolence garnered her more support, easy re-election, and even an appointment to a prestigious committee assignment.
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@thecarpathian That’s unbelievable.
And yet, given that it’s Florida, not surprising.
When people stand around and shrug their shoulders as though there’s nothing we can do and say, “thoughts and prayers,” after these atrocities occur, they’ve reLly shown their incredible stupidity and complete lack of respect for human life.
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