What are the smallest speakers that are clean and flat down to 20hz?

moonglum that's very interesting.   Thank you for that.

I’ve been considering adding subs to my second system that uses smaller limited range monitors and Rhythmik subs are the leading contender if I do. I used to use an older M&K 12" sub there that gave up the goat a couple years back.

Not much happening there below 50hz or so currently but what’s there does sound quite lovely these days indeed and my other main system covers the bases that one does not pretty well. its nice actually having two different windows into the music, one with good authorative detailed and articulate bass extension down to at least 30hz or so that one can feel as well as hear, the other just nice and clear and detailed music to hear if not so much feel.

Then there are the headphone options with these as well for yet a different way to listen but that's another story altogether.

Why is it stupid?

Impressive on paper.   Next we need a stereophile write up with measurements.  Has anyone heard Kii 3?

Specs?  Did not see any of those. 

Kii is interesting in that it takes a unique approach

Head/earphones don't count.

I asked for the smallest that could do it. Nothing impossible about that since some clearly can and do just a matter of how small that can be.

shadornes Barefoot recommendation was a good shot.   On paper clearly  a lot of bang in a smaller package if not quite able to hit the 20hz mark.  

Wolf probably not but who would not want to know which actually can do it all best and for how much?

Ct I hear most of the indicated bass notes that were added there. Level I hear is down some at 30 hz and harder to discern lower. That is consistent with fletcher Munson. This was with moderate loud volume on my main system Using an older Pc usb feed to mhdt Constantine dac to arc sp 16 pre-amp to Bel Canto ref1000m amps to Ohm F5 series 3 speakers (12 inch Walsh style driver with on board tone level adjustments to room size).

Room size is ~ 22x34 L shape with normal to slightly lower than normal ceiling height and 3 openings to adjacent rooms. I coukd try again with the doors closed as I usually do to max out low bass.

That at was very cool with the visual display. Thanks.

Clearly larger active or powered speakers or speakers with integrated powered subwoofers are best able to do it but I’m wondering more about purely passive speakers even if only in a smaller room.  I realize room acoustics play a big part.   I'm also wondering more about low end extension and  distortion levels assuming other external factors will need adjustment for truly flat response. 

The ohm walshes do quite well in this area. I’ve heard response with test records down to 20 hz with 8 inch ohm Walsh drivers in the past. The smaller ones I have these days are 8 inch and the larger 12 inch. One individual on the ohm thread here reported response down below 20 hz recently I recall.

I'm just interesting in what smaller speakers people have found are truly good down to 20hz and if so why.

I've heard Mani's and liked those very much.   I recall they had a unique bass driver design.

I really mean  the speaker does not roll off much or at at all at 20hz in a typical room.  How flat it is or not will largely depend on room acoustics from there right?  If it can only be done in a smaller room fine, just say so.  I'd expect one capable of it in a smaller room to be physically smaller than one for a larger room.

Good stuff folks, keep it coming.

noble I just want to know the small speakers capable of it in a typical room.

I’m familiar with the swarm approach. That’s probably the most effective approach in the end if done right I’d say..

30hz isn’t bad as long as the size is small accordingly. I could probably live with that. But 20hz or even lower maybe is best.

Yes 20 hz and dynamic range which is why I tend to think larger drivers and speakers for that.   But how small can they be?     

Zu has yet to bowl me over in demos in regards to having that low end dynamic "meat on the bones" as I like to say but demos to date have been less than optimum conditions most liklely?

Shadorne Barefoot is one I am not familiar with. Those seem to add the powered subs, in fact 4 separate powered bass drivers per speaker in a small package indeed. hard to argue with that. Thanks for identifying those.

Seemingly a smaller package but would they outperform the OHM 5015? Those go for about 10K. Totally different beasts otherwise but with 4 powered bass driver per speaker could be.   They do show -3db down at 30hz in teh specs though which would seem to indicate the size is limiting them to some extent in regards to low end extension if not low end dynamics otherwise.

noble100,

Thanks for those kind remarks.

Yes we are on the same page on what is best. Also with Atmasphere on the size factor.

That is why I ask the question. I prefer simple and small, not large and/or many.

Totem Mani 2 has always interested me in this regard with its unique double bass driver design in a reasonably small monitor package.

For floor standers I feel my Ohm Walsh speakers with 8" driver for smaller rooms and 12" for larger are still my personal overall sound quality benchmark in this regard. There is a newer model the 5015 that adds built in powered subs which I suspect has to push the limits as well. But I’m always looking and wondering. Plus I think its an informative discussion in general.

Here is link to info on OHM 5015:

http://ohmspeaker.com/speakers/beta/

Specs say +/- 3 db at 16hz.

I have OHM F5s which is same cabinet, same main driver (12"), minus built in 15" powered sub and is ported not sealed.

Also smaller similar Walsh 2s with similar driver but 8".

F5 can be adjusted to room size but is overkill for smaller rooms only.

Actually here is what the ear hears and its far from flat at the extreme top and bottom range of our ears in particular:

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/ear_sensitivity.htm

For example according to this what measures correctly as flat at say 20 hz will be heard down more than 70db by the typical human ear in the worst case at the lower volume limit of human hearing. Less so but still down at higher volumes. So significant equalization/boost is needed to "hear it as flat". How much depends on volume. Same true with the high end.

Whereas a microphone used to measure the levels accurately would have flat response end to end. Our ears are far from that as shown in the chart.

Its not absurd at all. Its a well documented fact.

Turn the volume up and things are better but still far from flat.

Equalization is the only practical solution if one truly cares beyond that.

It helps to manage expectations though to realize and understand that what we hear is not the same as what measures as flat.

If the speaker rolls off at extreme frequencies, then we hear even less.    

The ability to not roll off at frequency extremes and make things even worse is what separates the men from the boys.

Compensating with equalization is then analogous to using performance enhancing drugs.  that is assuming the amp and speakers can handle it.  That's a different story.   if they can't,  then the results will surely not be good.

Shadorne I think we are saying the same thing.