The answer to your question is subjective by nature, so there's no way to respond to it without expressing an opinion. Measurements are not dependent on what audiophiles think or feel are they? Asserting that its all subjective is what prevents us finding the answer to this question. |
@jetter hi jetter, About a year ago i see that you posted on here asking for advice on cables. Here is part of what you wrote There is little about the tone or clarity of these cables I do not like You are one of those audiophiles that thinks cables make a difference. They do not. This is imaginary. That immediately disqualifies you from this discussion. I do not care about cables. If i swapped your expensive cables while you werent looking, you just wouldn't hear any difference. However, its highly likely that you have spent almost no effort on the room youve put your speakers in. Again, this is a typical mistake. The fact of the matter is you chose this hobby because you want the best sound in the world. That is by definition what its all about. If you are not able to entertain the question of what is the best speaker in the world, then you cant possibly be an audiophile, and your comments have no credibility. |
Your question is like asking what is the best micro-brew in the world! you are wrong about that. A speaker has a purpose. micro brew has no purpose. It can taste like whatever you like. A speaker needs to meet certain specifications. It should do 20 to 20khz perfectly. It should not rattle. It should not be cold. It should not add cabinet coloration. It should have perfect imaging. etc Nothing like microbrew. |
Now that sir, is just a jack ass statement. Makes me wonder who here is actually tone deaf.
The cable audibility issue has been going on for decades. Its the biggest hoax in the audiophile community. |
First of all there are an awful lot of measurements to be taken into account. poppycock. Ive seen and read dozens of john atkinsons reviews and there never has been any indication that the best speakers have better measurements. They all measure differently and thats about all you can say. |
I'll ask him: "What's the best car?" dont know anything about cars. Magazines do speaker reviews all the time. Are you telling me all speakers are the same? Youd have to be deaf to think that. So what is the best? |
Some will say no speaker has been an improvement over the 57 Quads Quads arent remotely the best. Horrific looking things they are. And outdated. |
@thieliste
what makes them the best? what makes them better than the B&W nautilus? |
Speakers are like human beings. They need to be sent to a lab to be given a thorough workup by a qualified speaker doctor and then retuned according to the notes that are "out of tune."
Speaker reviewers are the equivalent of quack doctors. They are self proclaimed experts who are unqualified.
If there's a bit of resonance at middle c, then thats what needs to be fixed. How many speakers are given a workup? None of 'em. Hence it's all a sham. All we have is the say so of the speaker companies. They wont even provide their own measurements.
its no wonder the audiogon audiophile community has no clue on what is best. They wouldnt know if it hit them in the face. |
what are the best speakers in the world?
Kii audio? Dutch and dutch? Wilson?
Surprising that nobody has even mentioned these yet. Maybe I am asking the wrong crowd.
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@thieliste
i invite you to come along and hear my custom tuned designs. I am in UK. |
So, what speakers do you own? green mountains. What's your point? |
The problem with the high end speaker industry is that few of 'em even provide the most basic on axis frequency response graph let alone more in depth measurements. It's as if they dont want consumers to know the TRUTH about their speakers. It's as if there are dirty secrets being hidden from us.
The truth of the matter is that it's the high end industry that is TROLLING us consumers. They must be laughing all the way to the bank.
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And to make matters even more complex, many of these speakers may have extremely close specs, yet still sound different. which is a polite way of saying its one big sham and nobody knows what theyre doing. Why else would anyone design a speaker to meet a spec if the reulting sound is highly variable? Just admit that nobody knows what theyre doing and call it a day. |
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@highendone
I obviously dont know what the best speaker is. And it looks like nobody within the audiogon community does judging by the lack of responses. Its as if nobody cares about trying to elevate the performance of speakers.
I think as a starting point we should consider the likes of magico, wilson, avalon etc. Im not suggesting these are the best. They may turn out to be horrific. But we need to start somewhere.
These speakers would then have to be sent off to the lab for a full workup, not dissimilar to the way you might visit a doctor for a workup. Naturally the speaker doctor would have to be qualified to the highest level and know exactly what note(s) were playing out of tune. Each speaker would need to be put through a range of tests.
An audiophile with golden ears would be employed to spend time listening to the speakers to identify any notes that were out of tune and in need of retuning.
The trouble is these hifi reviewers are not qualified to carry out a full workup to this level of thoroughness. All theyre doing is giving their opinion which could be biased and completely unreliable.
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Preference does not come into the equation when it comes to deciding what the best speaker is. This is a typical fallacy within the audiophile community.
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What are your credentials that you can assert 100% that cable differences are irrelevant? I can hear things that most audiophiles cant. Ive been to high end demos where speakers have been playing out of phase unbeknown to the experts in the room who set the system up. One example of this was at a high end show. Obviously plenty of audiophiles had been in the room before i arrived and nobody had noticed. It was only when i came along and pointed it out that it was confirmed that the cables were not plugged in phase and fixed. Its unlikely these people would hear the differences in cables if they cant even hear whether the speakers are in phase. How the hell are we supposed to make better speakers if nobody can figure out which speaker is the best in the world? The only thing that has been proven here is the ignorance within the audiogon community. Nobody here understands how to begin to test whether one speaker is better than another. Where the hell are the measurements to show how well speakers perform so that we can quickly compare which speakers are better or worse? |
The best speaker is the one that passes the signal input with the least amount of coloration. Speakers like wilson and von schweikert use special cabinet materials to try to achieve this.
A speaker that suits your preference for specific colorations is not a good speaker. It would not come close to being the best. Audiophiles have such poor hearing that they cant reliably agree on whats best.
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@djones51 you are twisting my words and have no interest in what I'm saying. In case youre interested, I'll say it again.
The best Speaker in the world will be warm and mushy if the recording has that quality to it. It will put out what you put in. A speaker is simply a tone generator. Unfortunately, few speakers put out what you put in. Some speakers put out things that arent supposed to be there and others dont put out things that are supposed to be there. One example of the latter is warmth.
Most people here are expressing their preference for speakers that always have a certain sound quality no matter what recording is played. This proves that my standards of requirements are higher than most people here.
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And yet you have stated that you are looking for speakers with mushy mids/bass. Sounds like coloration to me, and hence no need for you to worry about what the best speaker is because you , in your own words, aren't seeking it I do love warm mids and bass. The fact that ive come across very few speakers that do it, implies that all these speakers are wrong and colored. The absence of warmth is just as much a coloration as too much of it. What I am seeking is the truth. Are you? would you know the truth if it hit you in the face or are you one of those audiophiles that cant hear it? |
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THey should be made out of a meter of concrete if you don't care about imaging or soundstage.
You're wrong. It could even improve imaging. |
@geoffkait
what do you have? |
The best speakers should be made of concrete with a thickness of at least 1 metre all the way around i would have thought. Yet the best we can manage in even the most expensive speakers is a few inches at most. It seems that speaker companies are happy to have no upper limit on their prices but are happy to compromise on baffle thickness!
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Lucky of us, constrained layer damping, composites,complex construction methods, etc, etc, have all been developed, negating the need for your mega heavy and thick cabinets. Really? Can you explain why high end speaker companies don't publish evidence of the effectiveness of their supposedly superior cabinets? We could then start to compare speakers. Do you have any suggestions on how we are supposed to make comparisons without this information being available? |
Remember we are not looking to shoot the messenger, just honesty. Neither do we want a flattering portrait, just an accurate one, don't we? but what exactly is honesty? |
