In my example contrasting MBL vs Soundlab, it was not my intention to
suggest that Soundlab would fo a poor job with Van Halen. It WAS my
intention to suggest that the big MBLs would do a better job (at least
to my taste). The delta is probably more significant on the flip side -
The MBL wouldn't be my first choice for chamber music, while the
Soundllab might well be. Both speakers sound good with a variety of
source material, but the MBL (in particular) shines with loud rock music
IMO. In the case of Sound Labs, the amp you use can make an enourmous difference! Because it has high impedances at low frequencies (where most of music's energy occurs) its helpful to have a tube amp because tubes can make power into higher impedances and solid state can't. This usually results in a pretty profound way that the speaker plays dynamics and bass impact. With the right amplifier a Sound Lab is hard to beat. In that regard, I've also heard mbls sound pretty good, driven by large solid state amps in turn driven by a high quality tube preamp. However IME the mbls are not really that hard to drive with tubes; the lower efficiency numbers reflect the fact that at 1 meter, most of the sound made by the speaker is not being picked up by the microphone. If you've auditioned both speakers using the same amp the chances are high that it was apples to oranges due to the amp/speaker interface (the amp favoring one speaker over the other). The idea that mbls 'shine' with loud rock music in particular (over other forms of music) sounds like a statement that is drifting to the world of mythology to me- people with Sound Labs and some of our larger amps tell me that they essentially have unlimited power and can't clip the amps before system is far too loud for them to be in the room. Sound Labs can do quite well at (and in fact are designed for ) higher volumes, with lots of bass impact (the A1s are good to 22Hz). Since the genre of music is unimportant; its my surmise that the jury is still out on this one as a proper comparison has never been made. It does sound like it would be an interesting thing to do though! |
I have found, listeners who primarily listen to rock, tend to " turn it up ", more so than other listeners. When I play classical I like to crank it so you really get those bass drum wallops. Verdi's Requiem (Fritz Renier conduction) on the RCA Soria set, track 2 side one, 'Daes Irae' will bring most systems to their knees if played at the performance volume. Dual 15" woofers really help. There are several copies on ebay right now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-VICTOR-SORIA-SERIES-USA-LD-6091-VERDI-Requiem-REINER-2LP-BOXSET-BOOKLET-... |
I don't need the last word in timbal accuracy, inner detail, octave to
octave balance, etc to maximally enjoy Van Halen - I need huge dynamic
range, bass impact, and the illusion of 3D space - that guitar needs to
be palpable. The 101s deliver that in a way the SoundLabs don't - at
least in my experience with auditioning both. Sound Labs can be quite dynamic with the right amps. Its hard to make them work with solid state because they have a 30 ohm impedance in the bass which solid state can't drive with a lot of power. For this reason a 100-watt tube amp can easily keep up with a 400 watt solid state amp on that speaker! With the right amp the Sound Labs keep up with mbl101s no worries! They are quite fun to blast Massive Attack or Emerson Lake and Palmer. Not saying the same is not true of mbls by any means. You just have to make sure that the amp and speaker match, which is a different topic! With regards to soundstage, dynamics, bass impact... you really need that to do classical music and a good deal of folk music. |
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As it is for metal, so it is for hard rock which is to say that the speaker does not care what you play. If it is good for rock it should be good for classical and vice versa.
If you do not find this to be the case its simply because its not that great a speaker to begin with. |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Atmasphere is referring to system synergy; you can get the sound you seek by well matched components in your system. Actually, I'm not talking about synergy although that can play a role. I am simply stating that a speaker is 'ideal for rock' as opposed to other forms of music is one of the biggest myths in the speaker world. If its good for classical and jazz it should be good for rock. If not, the speaker has a serious flaw and likely isn't all that good for classical or jazz either. |
Keithr, yes, some speakers don't rock. That's too bad for them- I would expect they would have troubles with other forms of music too. |
Czarivey, what if the band is playing with distorted guitars but undsitorted bass?? Many bass players have very powerful amps so as to avoid distortion.
In addition, since we are talking about rock, one must not forget that synthesizers can make prodigious bass. My Prophet 5 plays bass lower than basses can go, but does not sound that great if its distorted. So I have to have a lot of power to avoid distortion when playing in my band.
Cerwin Vegas are cheap and you get what you pay for- in this case substandard sound compared to the actual recordings made in the 80s (and I have a lot of them).
Again, you want the best speaker for hard rock- it will be the same as the best speaker for classical. Its our brains that make the distinction, not the equipment. |
distortion produced by design and the rest of music of 80's hard rock in general poorly recorded. that's why. what's the point having invested huge for a few songs vs. the rest of bands? Sorry, this comment is nonsense. For starters, rock going back the 1950s has had 'distortion by design'- that is the sound of an electric guitar, which continues to this day. Like any genre, 80s rock has some excellent and some poor recordings as does rock from any other period. |
My Classic Audio Loudspeakers model T3.3 are the best for rock and roll. And **all** other forms of music. Because they are the best. In my room. That I've heard so far. With my equipment. And my taste.
Once again, the idea that a speaker is better for one kind of music as opposed to another is 100% myth. The speaker is unable to distinguish what music it is playing.
We're talking about **1980s** **hard rock** for Pete's sake! What if its 1970s hard rock or 1990s hard rock?? Or what if its 1980s metal (which is not hard rock- ask any metal dude if hard rock is 'true')?
How in the heck can speakers be so genre specific?? The simple fact is that they are not. If its good for classical, it will have the punch, detail and dynamic range to handle rock or folk or whatever you throw at it. All speakers trade off things in price and performance; some might say that you need more efficiency or bass to do rock right, but you need that for classical too. As well as 90s house dub. And the ability to play my band, which is 2010s hard rock (space rock actually; slightly different genre...).
So- the idea that a speaker is somehow genre specific if complete nonsense and is 100% myth, and FWIW is the biggest myth in the world of loudspeakers.
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as the highs rolloff of these speakers makes merciful fate, sodom,
bathory, slayer, hirax, satan jokers sound amazing, as if your a real
metalhead, You don't need to have a high frequency rolloff to enjoy these bands! What you need is a system that does not sound painful when you turn it up. That likely has a lot more to do with the electronics (due to distortion) than it does anything with the speaker. One of my best friends (Earl Root, may he rest in peace, when introducing me to people in the metal scene would say 'he's not metal' and he was right- OTOH I introduced him to Steve Tibbetts and Popul Vuh; he introduced me to My Dying Bride, Skepticism, Earth, Therion, Opeth...) pretty much founded the metal scene here in the Twin Cities (google...). He was also a record collector and owned a record store. His system was anything but rolled off on the highs- it was very extended and natural (he ran Snell Acoustics model Bs driven by a set of tube monoblocks). The trick was of course to find the LP rather than the CD. A lot of metal kids shopped his store because he was the store in town that had the titles on LP. They preferred the LP because things like the cymbals sounded right when you cranked the volume. |
