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What are the best loudspeakers under $4000 to re-create lifelike piano

Over the past 4 months I've spent time with five loudspeakers.  On a scale of 1-10 I'd rate them as follows in their ability (with my equipment in my room) to recreate a lifelike piano.  Tekton Lore - 6.5 (great scale but tonal accuracy and clarity somewhat lacking),    Kef LS50 - 7.0 (moderate scale but slightly better clarity and tonal accuracy)  Kef R500 - 8.0  (great scale and very good clarity and tonal accuracy), Spatial Audio M3TurboS -8.1 (great scale and very good clarity and tonal accuracy and very smooth)  Magnepan 1.7i - 9.0 (very good scale with excellent clarity and tonal accuracy - very lifelike).

In your room with your equipment, what loudspeakers are you listening too and how would you rate them for their ability to recreate a lifelife piano and if possible a few comments as to why?
snapsc

Showing 20 responses by snapsc

snapsc OP
661 posts
 
Good suggestions so far... appreciated... any thoughts on revel or ohm walshes?
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
Do the impact monitors go low enough without a sub to capture the piano size and scale?  How are they for tonality and clarity?
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
I think we may all agree that there is no perfect speaker for reproducing the piano  but what comes closest?  What about Zu, or tekton brilliance or double impact, or Martin Logan, or dynaudio or legacy or golden ear or any of the dozens I've missed??
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
The thing is that when you pick a loudspeaker it's probably because it transports you to the concert... or because it plays loud cleanly... or because it throws a gigantic image...and more.  Since the piano is hard to do, especially at $4k or less... it seems worth exploring which loudspeakers do it well...even if the recordings themselves are imperfect.
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
@jayctoy.  So far most comments have been that it is hard to do a piano. In my mind this is a good test for an "affordable" loudspeaker for anyone considering a new speaker.

The DI and DI Monitor are getting great write ups for their overall realism. As a follow up. Are you saying that the DI Monitors when used with a sub have the scale to do a good piano?  Also, please comment on their clarity....why...as I noted above, it's really hard to do clear piano. 
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
@Wart  Thanks for the suggestion and I agree that most of the time the piano is mic'd in a way that both the sound and location aren't realistic

@jayctoy...you make a good point...not very many people listen to 90% piano....so I'd probably add acoustic guitar and then voice reality as the next criterea...and probably many would reverse that to voice first..
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
@grannyring   It definitely seems that the DIs are well thought of.  I'm guessing that there are many people not too excited about 106 pounds each...so it would be interesting to hear how the Brilliance and Electrons stack up to the DI Monitors (since @jayctoy gives them a thumbs up)  ....just looking around the forum at various comments, it would seem maybe pretty well??
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
@philjolet  you make a great point. Whether you hear a piano from 15' away or through an open window it is that airiness and clarity that it is a cue that it is a piano and not a loudspeaker...hence my original question:  what loudspeakers at less than the price of a piano do a good job of sounding like an actual piano??
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
Also, the latest Absolute Sound says that Manepan is offering a 60 day in home trial on their 0.7 mode (in their 2017 top picks supplement) ...but I don't see this on the Magnepan website.  I listened to the 0.7s recently through a Parasound integrated and they sounded very clear and spacious from the lower mids up....but a sub would definitely be required
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
@johnnyb53   Question:  do the 1.7s need a sub to do piano or do they go low enough on their own??
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
@wolf_garcia   how do the preludes sound with respect to mid and low bass with such small transducers??
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
The $4k was just a number that might be the speaker portion of a $10k total budget...which any non audiophile would think is crazy. Interstingly, a number of posters have suggested speakers ranging from $2-4k that with a good recording and the right source and amplification might get you close to a realistic piano presentation. 
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
sounds like a strong endorsement for the Walsh driver capability....any idea, what are the actual Walsh driver cones made from?
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
So, for some people, reproducing a piano may be less meaningful than reproducing an acoustic guitar or a clarinet. In theory, we could have xxxx more threads to see what is recommened for other instruments or voices. Then we could tally the results and see what loudspeakers were good for everything. Then we could rank order them by price so as to help newbies get the best for the least $$$.  The fun point of this thread so far is not what people don't like but what they do like and why and what they have have moved on to. 
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
@bondmanp  thanks for the comments...I see on other forums that the relatively few people that comment on Ohm Walshs also seem to find them very good on piano. 

The ohm room size guide is confusing...I'm guessing that you could fill a very large room with a seating position 12' back using the OhmWalsh 2000...but only from 60 hz or so on up as the big room would suck out the lower bass....if that is correct, then their website is actually suggesting you need larger more expensive models in order to get the bass performance without a sub???

In my case, I'm using a Power Sound Audio S1500 which is pretty fast and has great tonality.
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
ASVJerry.  Ok, this is a little off subject but it looks like you built your own style of walshes. What kind of transducers (paper, titanium, etc) did you use and why. 

It it seems strange that so few loudspeaker companies have adopted then marketed a Walsh based product???
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
It is interesting/unusual?? that there are so few comments about the modern day ohm Walsh on any forum you look at compared to most other loudspeakers. Not sure what it means but given how long the company has been around its surprising. Given that pianos have air and scale the Walsh would seem to be a good candidate since it has no crossover in the critical frequencies. 
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
@kalali. What do you mean when you say the sound is too diffused.  Are you describing excess ambiance...or lack of clarity...or reverb????
snapsc OP
661 posts
 
It's pretty hard to understand how ohm can offer 120 days and silver line offer none... return option. It's pretty much understood that a great loudspeaker may sound less spectacular when you get it home. 

This is is the same problem you face with many loudspeakers sold by dealers if you don't live nearby... no way to try without tons of driving. 
snapsc OP
661 posts
 

It has been almost 5 years since I started this thread.  Over that time period, I've owned a bunch of different speakers and electronics.  With 5 years of trial and error and stating the obvious, rooms and electronics matter as much if not more than the speakers.  And....recordings with piano are all over the map in terms of how they attempt to spread the sound over two speakers.

I've also come to believe that a system/room/speakers that are capable of portraying a realistic piano may not be as convincing in other areas.  A recent example:

A buddy of mine has Maggie 3.7i's fronted by a Lyngdord 2170 used for its dac and room correction as a preamp into a Halo A21.  The Maggies are crossed at 80hz and an Audio Kinesis 4 sub array handles the bottom end.  The realism of a piano is really, really good...but...only if the volume is 80db-90db at the listening position.  Less than 80db  and the piano sounds lifeless and more than 90db and it is too bright.

The Maggies are equally convincing with stringed instruments...but only one or two at a time...more complex music that contains 4+ instruments and voices seem a little less clear and focused....and again have the volume limitation issue.

By comparison, I would say that my own system with an Oppo 205 into a Belles 22a pre into a Wells Immorata llST amplifier into Spatial Audio M3 Sapphires also does an excellent job with pianos....not quite as realistic as the Maggies but quite a bit better on all other music....and really good at 70db as well.

I draw no firm conclusions at this point and have no pronouncements to make...I just remain interest in everyone else's experiences.

 

 

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