What are some of the downsides of owning a Magneplanar .7 or 1.7i ?


Thinking of moving up speaker wise, and so am considering  the fabled Magneplanar speakers, that is, either the  the .7, or supposedly new 1.7i.   (BTW, I am not sure the Maggie .7 is necessarily an upgrade, and has less bass than my current box speakers...see below)

Besides "Maggies" having outdated speaker terminals that might be a struggle with banana plugs,, and they are generally power hungry, I am curious if anyone can honestly tell me of any other downsides of this design.  For the last 30 years, I have owned several traditional box design speakers. 

I currently have a pair of Golden Ear Technology model 7's....which I like and generally sound good However, I  would like to confirm what a planar design brings to the table in sound quality. I have read many times about the box-less sound  provided by this design, and its wide sound staging and low distortion. 

I think I have enough power with BAT VK-200 amp (100RMS) to drive the .7, but not sure that is enough to drive the MG1.7i. to higher volumes The pre-amp is a Conrad Johnson PV-14SE. 

The listening room area 12 X15ft, but opens into kitchen/dining area divided by a medium size couch. The rest of the space is approximately 12X18ft behind the sofa with a stupid counter island ( so I cannot move the sofa back any further.. The ceiling is 8 to 9 ft feet high ( not a cathedral ceiling, praise the Lord) . It is a bit of haul to the dealer I bought the Golden Ear T's from who also carries Magneplanar line.  All advice welcomed.    Thanks, SJ   

sunnyjim

Showing 7 responses by johnnyb53

[Magnepans] Lack of Dynamic Range . If you play Classical Music is a problem with rock/pop is not.
Not in my experience with my 1.7s, but then I cheat a little bit. I have sandbags on their feet to dampen vibrations, use the tilt-back spacers to energize the room better, and have them perfectly mated with a pair of small, fast powered subwoofers (1400w peak) to fill in the 36-50Hz region. The panel/sub coherence popped into focus when I dialed in the continuous phase control. That adds a lot of power and dynamics. I use this rig almost exclusively for LP playback. My amp is rather modest by today’s standards--a Perreaux PMF-1150B rated at 100 wpc into 8 ohms. Factory specs didn’t specify output ito 4 ohms, but with the results I’m getting, it must put out close to 200 wpc into 4 ohms.

Anyway, this rig does dynamics gloriously. I love playing bombastic large scale orchestral works--Russian showpieces, Holst’s "The Planets," Beethoven’s Eroica, and big band--Buddy Rich, Count Basie, Harry James on Sheffield D2D, etc. When I play these records the dynamics knock me around the room. The dynaimcs really took off when I acquired a MAGI Phonomenal phono stage--all tube handwired PTP. I also have the matching line stage. Together they transformed my rig.

... Going from my 1.6 to proac d48r has been a revelation. Dynamic range is definitely a component of emotion. While the maggiea served me well, they are no match for my new speakers.
That’s hardly a fair method to make a general characterization of Magnepan products. The 1.6 is a 20-yr-old design and was discontinued at least seven years ago. It is not representative of Maggie’s current product line. The 1.6’s replacement, the 1.7, was such a quantum leap in performance that the technology was applied throughout the line: the 3.6 became the 3.7, the 20.1 became the 20.7, the the .7 was introduced as well. I can also attest that with the right setup and appropriate-sized room, the Mini Maggies are also *very* dynamic.

And let’s not forget that your new speakers retail at $10,900. Let’s hope they sound better than 20-yr-old $1500 speakers. You could buy a pair of Maggie 3.7s plus $5500 worth of subwoofers for the price of your Proacs,

Sunnyjim (the OP) posted in part:
I currently have a pair of Golden Ear Technology model 7's....which I like and generally sound good However, I would like to confirm what a planar design brings to the table in sound quality. I have read many times about the box-less sound provided by this design, and its wide sound staging and low distortion.

I think I have enough power with BAT VK-200 amp (100RMS) to drive the .7, but not sure that is enough to drive the MG1.7i. to higher volumes The pre-amp is a Conrad Johnson PV-14SE.
3-1/2 years ago I did a fairly comprehensive search for a pair of $2K floorstanders. Final contenders came down to the Goldenear Triton 7
and the Magnepan 1.7. I took my wife along plus one of her favorite musical works, the cantata "Elijah" by Mendelssohn. She has a strong history in vocal music, especially ensemble, oratorio/cantata, and opera.

I was looking for a tie-breaker. There were things I liked about the Triton 7s, including price ($1400), small footprint, and top-to-bottom tonal balance. But I didn't find it quite as engaging as the Maggie 1.7s, but I wasn't sure what it was.

My wife knows "Elijah" backwards & forwards. We played Elijah through the TRitons, and then the Maggies. There was the tie-breaker. There are passages in Elijah that have EIGHT-part vocal harmonies. She couldn't hear them all from the Triton, but easily picked them all out through the Maggies. Inner detail, anyone?

When I asked if she was OK with the Maggies' imposing size (5'5" tall x 19" wide), she said, "Are you kidding? It's the sound that matters." And we took them home right then and there. Did I get the world's best wife? I think so.

The more I listened to the Maggies at home, the more extraordinary they revealed themselves to be. First of all, the Maggies showed me how noisy most box speakers are--how much vibrations, resonances, and pent-up and released backwaves obscure inner harmonies and details that otherwise make the music come alive. I am continually enthralled by the effects of subtly applied background vocals that largely go missing on other speaker types. I also found that the dipole pattern with out-of-phase backwave does wonders for taming the 100-200 Hz hump that seems to plague in-room response curves with conventional speakers

Also, SunnyJim, I have a listening room similar in size and feature to yours, including the room dimensions and the open architecture. However, I even have a 15' cathedral ceiling. My amp even has the same power rating as your BAT--100wpc into 8 ohms and 200 wpc into 4 ohms. The 1.7s are easy to drive with this amp, and the speakers fill the space with clarity and dynamics. You may want to get a fast sub or two to help the bass energize the room.

Sideways move. Different technology with very different presentation. Obviously will sound quite different, but not a slam dunk improvement.
If you’re talking about the Proacs vs. Maggie 3.7s plus subs, no argument. I was just trying to put Audiolover718’s comparison into perspective--comparing some new $11K Proacs to 20-yr-old budget Maggies is hardly fair. Compare current Maggies plus subs (e.g., a *pair* of JL E-Sub e112s) in the same price range and it’s at least an even contest. Actually, that would be a *very* dynamic setup and still be $400 cheaper than the Proacs.

The BAT will not provide enough power to open up the Maggies fully unless it’s a higher current design. You likely will be disappointed in the dynamics, but enjoy the soundstaging properties of the Maggies.

The BAT *is* rated at 200 wpc into 4 ohms, so it is absolutely a good match for the 1.7s. My amp has the same rating. I will admit that the 1.7s on their own might sound a bit thin on large scale music in a space as large as SJ’s, but a quick sub or two with the right blending controls (continuously variable crossover down to at least 50 Hz, and continuously variable phase control 0-180 deg. or more) will get those Maggies with the 100/200 wpc amp to fully occupy a fairly large listening space. I’d say a JL Audio Dominion d108, Gallo TR-3D, or GoldenEar Forcefield 3 or 4 would do the job nicely.
it is easy to get better speakers than any Maggie -- just spend 3x as much
Add in a good powered subwoofer or two and it competes with even more expensive speakers. I go to a high end vendors' open house almost every year. The first time I went (in 2006), Wilson Audio Specialties was demo-ing their $160,000-ish Alexandria V2s. In another room were a pair of Magnepan 20.1s augmented by a pair of JL Fathom F212s, total retail price $25,595. That was less than 1/6 the price of the Alexandrias while being competitive in performance.
tgonzales writes:
...The maggies plus sub still have different sound than other speakers but don’t lack anything.
Absolutely right. The standard criticisms of Magnepans don’t apply if you add and integrate a good subwoofer or two. With bass augmentation you don’t have to bring them 5-6 feet into the room. 3-4 feet will do nicely because the sub(s) compensate for the dipole’s out-of-phase backwave that cancels bass from 50 Hz on down.

Nor do you need a mega power amp. An amp that’ll make 150-200 wpc into 4 ohms will be plenty because the powered subwoofers do the heavy lifting for the bass. It is bass extension and transient response that establishes the dynamic impact, and my dual 1200 watt powered subwoofers take care of that nicely. It’s time to set aside the myth that dynamic subwoofers can’t keep up with panel speakers. My subs have an 8" active driver and two matching passive radiators in a 9" sealed cube. The internal amp makes 1200 watts. The active driver’s frame occupies most of the interior to enable a long diaphragm excursion.

Then you get the best of both--the bass extension and dynamic impact characteristic of a full-range dynamic speaker, and the noiseless, boxless presentation of a line source using a large area membrane speaker.
Here's a very thoughtul review of the Magnepan .7s by Julie Mullins from a couple of years ago at The Absolute Sound. Her observations and perspective echo much of my experience with my 1.7s, including her observations with a pair of subwoofers. 

I also have a pair of subs with my 1.7s, and I can play pretty much any type of music successfully. Not only do they do classic rock well, they also do big band and large scale orchestral works very well. Brass sounds astonishingly real with the 1.7s, and I also have some recordings that sound best w/o subs (e.g., small jazz ensembles) but a lot more that sound great with them. Speaking of small jazz ensembles, Ray Brown and Charlie Haden great through 1.7s without help from subs. They really flesh out the sound of plucked upright acoustic bass.

To SunnyJim: read both pages of the review; it may help expand your perspective on the virtues and challenges of the .7. I figure the 1.7 is similar but able to sound bigger (because it is bigger).

Speaking of ... one thing that Maggie reviewers consistently call out is how well Maggies do piano. This makes perfect sense to me because the radiating area of a Maggie (esp. the 3.7 and 20.7) nominally approaches the vibrating area of a piano soundboard, certainly more than you get from a 6" mid/woofer and 1" dome tweeter. 
That’s always been the problem [limited dynamic range, extreme directivity, etc.] with Maggies I had . But guys on here claim 1.7 on up has changed that on dynamic range at least.

It’s not just the "guys on here." It’s also several major reviewers familiar with Maggies over the years and how the x.7 series has changed that. All prior designs were done by Magnepan founder and chief engineer Jim Winey. A few years ago Jim Winey stepped aside and his son, Steve, stepped in. The pace of new products was pretty slow under Jim, but has really picked up under Steve: Consider: the DWM panels, the Mini-Maggies, and the entire x.7 series, starting with the 1.7s which used all quasi-ribbon drivers and added a supertweeter.

Soon after the appearance of the 1.7 came the 3.7, then the 1.7i and 3.7i, then the 20.7 and the new .7. Magnepan had *never* introduced that many model changes in that short a time frame before.

Jonathan Valin wrote two evaluations of the 1.7 introduced in 2010. The first was a "First Listen," published in Absolute Sound’s website in Feb. 2010.
The second was a full followup, based on the Feb. article, but expanded and published in Issue 205 (Aug. 2010).

More reviews:

It’s time to set aside the historical dogma and sweeping generalizations of how Maggies sound. If you haven’t heard any x.7 Maggies in a good setup, you don’t know how the current line of Maggies sound. The 1.6s were released 20 years ago and discontinued 8 years ago. The 1.7s have been on the market for over seven years already. It’s time to catch up.