What? The Bergmann Sindre not trippin' your trigger any more?
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For goodness sakes, try to listen to it before spending your money, given that you already own one or more turntables that I would guess are as good or better. Having had extensive listening experience (~10 years) with my best friend's WT Reference, I do not get the hysteria over the Well Tempered products, but to be fair I have not heard the Amadeus. This is not to say that the Reference is bad but rather that it just does not elicit anything near to euphoria in me. I wouldn't trade any of my six turntables for it, lets put it that way.
Hi,i use WT Reference before,now is WT Amadeus GT,although i didn't compare side by side,but for my memory,the new WT Amadeus is everything better than Reference,at last,may be the Reference marco dynamic is better than Amadeus.this is really amazing turntable in this prices range,i think no one can do that
Lewm, I agree entirely with what you say about the Well-Tempored first turntable. I have a friend who totally agree with you and I about the early table, but he positively raves about the Amadeus. I thorough trust him.
As I am to be away from my listening room with the Bergman tt, which my friend also owns, I have no immediate plans to buy anything.
I should also say that the comments and reviews on the Amadeus are overwhelmingly positive with comparisons with greatly more expensive and widely heralded tts.
I am not sure a person your age (mid 70s) and audio biases can tell the difference between a "giant killer" and a placebo(see below). You have already proven that by arguing a 1" tall jar of pebbles improves your system just by sitting on it. How can anyone take your advice seriously? Please feel free to spend your money on what you believe you hear but please place a disclaimer on the advice you give others. Lewm is right when he said "For goodness sakes, try to listen to it before spending your money, given that you already own one or more turntables that I would guess are as good or better." The truth is that at this point you truly can't tell the difference. I think it is known as Presbycusis - a Gradual hearing loss that occurs as you age. I suggest you stop the denials and start accepting the fact you are no longer the dictator at the head of the class. Thank God Audiogon offers a place for free thinking unlike your former classroom where questioning your opinions led to a "F".
"According to the National Institute on Deafness and Other Communication Disorders (NIDCD), about one in three U.S. adults between the ages of 65 and 75 have impaired hearing. The NIDCD further estimates that about half of people 75 and older have some degree of hearing loss as well."
Hello Buda, you bring up some good points. However, based on your NIDCD numbers, Norm has a better than 66.7% chance and/or a flip of a coin chance that he does not have a hearing loss. Maybe fate has been kind to "old" Norm and blessed him hearing better than his peer group, then again, maybe not...who knows? BTW, are you by some chance a previous student of his?
Buda, Up to a point, the brain does a wonderful job compensating for gradual hearing loss. The NIDCD hardly went out on a limb making that claim; I would wager that no one at the age of 65 or over has the measurable hearing acuity that he or she had at age 18. That would be zero persons. Anyway, nobody's perfect. On the other hand, experienced listeners develop skills that make them better judges of audio equipment, or not, compared to any 18-year-old.
What I decry is the Emporer's-new-clothes psychology that comes into play when there is hysteria surrounding a new product, such as the Amadeus. And now apparently we have Mr. Firebaugh quoted (above) as saying that some other newer turntable product is "the best he's heard". (Hope I got that right.)
Unoear and Lewm,
You bring up valid points! I was just busting Norms chops and did not intend to suggest everyone over 65 should stop enjoying hi-end audio or has a valid view point. In fact, I have several Audio friends who are in the Norm years that I think highly of. My comments were directed at Norms history of pontificating to other Audiogoners on topics that are on the audio fringe at best. His techniques to discredit opposing viewpoints come from a long teaching carrier. Norm was a Political Science Professor at Texas A&M (explains a lot). I was fortunately NOT one of his students. I am sure that I would not have lasted long in his class because I tend to ask questions.
Buda, several comments. I don't know what you are talking about with the Brilliant Pebbles. I never said any such thing. Second, you need to study the process of selective perception. It is a two way street. Some do not hear or see things because they believe they won't. But in reality one man's giant killer is worthless to another. I never said that I believed the WTA was a giant killer but that many others have said so. I have not heard it.
As to your gratuitous comments about my age and hearing. From about six months after birth, humans begin to lose the ability to hear hi gh frequencies. I am no exception. In a recent hearing test, I can only hear frequencies to 15.5k Hz. But many people of all ages have irregular frequency responses across the range of hearing. My doctor said that mine remain what they were when I was 50. What evidence do you have that you are abnormal?
I totally agree with you that Audiogon or any site affords the opportunity for people to decide for them self. I'm curious as to why you seem so incapable of reading that I was merely inquiring whether others had favorable experiences with this turntable. I do wonder what your vendetta is based on. Did I give you an F?
Buda, again I don't understand you. What does, "Norms history of pontificating to other Audiogoners on topics that are on the audio fringe at best." mean. I suspect you are talking about my strong feelings about "objectivists' notions of science, which I would agree don't have much to do with audio or science. Apart from that I merely express my experiences with products and never any "pontification." If you can give me an example and you are correct, I will apologize.
Again, you seem in violation of your displeasure with "pontification" with your comments on my being a retired professor and supposedly not allowing questions.
I had the Classic 1 and now have an Amadeus. Even though it is a nice table, there's nothing the Classic does better than the Amadeus when it comes to the sound. The only reason there would be to get a Classic over the Amadeus is if you want more of a "standard" design and don't mind the decrease in performance.
FWIW, i used the original Well-Tempered for years, with a few tweaks,
there was a 'well-damped clamp' or somesuch, a massive brass clamp that
surrounded the fluid cup below the arm (not a mfr.-issued upgrade). I think I
may have upgraded the motor and arm tube at some point, and did
upgrade the platter at one point (all of these were upgrades thru well-
tempered). The TT performed yeoman's service for the better part of 20
years. I used it in a fairly revealing system, with various Van de hul's, then
a Lyra Parnassus, SP-10 ARC preamp, various ARC tube power amps
(ending with Classic 60) and a pair of Crosby Quads. The table gave me a
very high level of musical performance, perhaps not the last word in deep
bass (but the Quads were never about deep bass anyway). While that table
has since gone to another owner (who was joyful at getting it) and I have
moved on to bigger, 'better' tables (currently using a Kuzma XL and
Airline), I can say, based on my experience with the original table, that it
more than held its own in a relatively serious system.
Drubin, I own a Bergman Sindre which has been excellent. I bought it long before I knew of the Amadeus. I have heard the Amadeus several times under very good circumstances and have been amazed with it. Now I have learned of a fanatical audio friend who is massively modifying the Amadeus as part of a program to put vinyl on a hard drive.
I was never much impressed by the classic Well Tempered tt.
Were I to do it all over, I would buy the Amadeus, but I would have to get a cueing lever, given my essential tremor.
Stereophile and a random collection of persons who post their views here and elsewhere on the internet are about equally credible. Meaning both should be taken with a grain of salt, and neither is a substitute for direct experience.
I have joked about it before, but it really is truly amazing that I have not seen one post from an owner of an Amadeus who is not thrilled with it. Not just "happy", but full of superlatives.
Lewm, your last paragraph made me stop and think.
Several "owners" were talking about the very same on Saturday.
And it's still true- I don't think about it much- but when I do, the looks of it and all, I think well, I've had much better looking tables, I've had some very flashy ones, some of the big name coveted ones... But when I play a record on the Amadeus, it quietly puts all those other tables back in the mental cobwebs, and all I hear is music, like none of those tables gave.
Class A? Does anyone other than their advertisers or those that are deaf even pay attention to that anymore?
I just recently switched from a Wilson Full Circle with their higher end ACT TWO arm to the Amadeus and simply couldn't be happier. The only issue I have is really more of a learning curve with the new table. The damping fluid the golf ball rests in can be a real hassle to deal with while setting it up and I am still searching for the perfect amount of the golf ball to submerge. Since every change you make with VTA and VTF seem to disrupt the fluids peace you have to wait a couple minutes in between each change to see if you like what you just did.