I have the standard Amadeus, but unfortunately do not have the answer to your question. I did inquire about the same thing, but frankly could not get much info on the subject.
That said, now I don't look back, because it has indeed lived up to my expectations.
I have the GTA but also spent some time with the Amadeus (white ball) . My impression is that there is a bit more air and extension with the more expensive table but the two are very similar, very closely comparable. There is no dramatic upgrade in musical value with the more expensive table. The musical value is there at the heart of both of them.
Hi Fjn04 and Tobias, I'd like to thank you both for sharing your Insight on this topic, as it does allow me a means of narrowing down which would be a better investment in the long run. It appears that it's merely about cosmetics more then anything from what I've read so far. Be well guys and Happy Holidays to both of you and your families. Regards, Oscar
Do you think the money you save on the less expensive version might be better spent towards a really good cartridge?
Sounds_real, IMHO that would definitely be one way to go about it. The white golf ball Amadeus can take a very good cartridge.
Interesting thought! I believe that cartridge
compatibility for both versions are the same.
Certainly it would stand to reason to put the extra $850 in to a better cartridge. IMHO, the EMT tsd-15 is a great match w/ my standard Amadeus. Don is well equipped to help you there, as he has several cartridges that match nicely. That will come down to personal taste of course. I would just ask his advice on the whole subject.
Guys, My intent is to use it with a bare minimum a Dynavector 20x2 and at a later date look into either the XXmk2 or said EMT tsd-15, as Don mentioned to me last year a good sounding $2.000 would go very far with enhancing what's great about this table. Yet looking at the numbers, if need be I'd swing the GTA version and never have to think back - what if?. So with that being said I'd like to thanks those of you whom were willing to share your thoughts on this matter, as it's something I was beginning to loose hairs over and that's kind of hard to imagine as I'm already bald headed. So your words are more then a little bit appreciated to say the least. Regards, Oscar
I have the standard. I spoke with the US distributor of the Well Tempered and after much hemming and hawing (sp?) he admitted he has never been able to tell the difference in sound between the two. It's purely cosmetic in his opinion. I then spoke to two different dealers (Audio Revelation in So Cal and the dealer in San Fran) and Audio Revelation said even with the best equipment, the difference in sound was almost imperceptible and the difference didn't mean one was better than the other. The San Fran dealer didn't want to comment on the matter. After all this, I went with the standard and I couldn't be happier....no looking back whatsoever.
Hi Paul2240, I'm beginning to think that it's must as you've mentioned purely appearances that differ between the two. Yet after doing more leg work my next question to all of you would be..................., is the DPS Power Supply worth considering?, as it appears some say yes, while others say the standard wall wart is more then up to doing the job and the DPS came about as a request to the guys at Dynavector New Zealand as a means of supply and demand. What's the consensus on using one of these in your opinion as I tend to think our voltage here in the States is more constant then in other countries?. Do have a pleasant Holiday and thanks for your willingness to share your insight as it all helps me narrow down the truth. Regards, Oscar
I would strongly suggest you go with the Dynavector 17D3. The retail is only $300 more the the 20X and well worth the money.
Dear El34eh; I too saw the power supply on the web site...I am not sure of the motivation behind offering this. I have no issues with my current stock setup. I do use a power conditioner, but I had no issues when I connected the PS directly to the wall.
In the US, Ayre distributes the DPS turntable and makes a custom power supply for it. Is there any chance the Amadeus DPS supply is actually sourced from Ayre? If so, I have heard the DPS TT with Ayre PS and it's a great power supply, well beyond the realm of the wall wart.
When A-B ing the two tables, it was very hard to hear any differeneces. We thought perhaps a bit more bass, but even that was inconclusive. Mostly cosmetics to me.
The DPS is designed and made by Opera of China, nothing to do with Ayre. It is better than the included wall wart and worth the $400. You'll hear it instantly.
As for cartridges, your budget. All mentioned will perform wonderfully.
Hey Chashas, do you think using a power conditioner negates the benefit of the WLT upgraded power supply? The conditioners I use wouldn't be called "state of the art" (Panamax and Monster, both their "best models"). Reluctant to drop $400 bucks if the conditioner makes up for any deficiencies in the wall wart....
Any insight would be helpful...
Only from my limited experience with two power distribution sources, a Shunyata Talos and Shunyata Guardian Pro, and a power conditioner, a Panamax, I'd say no, the benefits of the Dps come thru regardless of what you plug it into. Those devices are affecting your system overall. The dps is doing something for the table that those devices won't.
Money well spent by those of us who already have.
Hi Guys, Once again I'd like to thank each and everyone of you, as it has made it easier for me to read between the lines on which options are worthwhile as well as going with the DPS Power Supply. I posted this inquiry on three different sites and just about everyone on each had their own views on what was what!, yet consensus is to go with the GTA model and the 20x2 as opposed to getting the standard version with an XXmk2, and in all honesty being someone whom sold Linn and Naim back in the day I totally understand/believe in the best source first rule followed by lesser components downstream. It's merely a no brainer and seeming that it's my last time doing this - why not go all out and not have to rethink my choice down the road and be thinking - what if?. Once again here's hoping each one of you and your loved ones the very best for the Holidays and lets just hope we're able to see beyond 12-21-2012!. Peace, Oscar
Hmm, I haven't had a chance to hear my XX-2 mkII that is being rebuilt by Soundsmith, but my impression is that the GTA difference I very minimal whereas many seem to think the upgrade from the. 20X2L to XX-2 is a big one (incl Don Better IIRC). And I don't see anyone in this thread saying that the GTA is a big sonic upgrade? Where are you finding this concensus you refer to? I'd be interested in seeing those impressions.
I'll bet you could platform the standard Amadeus on a heavy butcher block cutting board
for $96 and it would make any difference between the two turntable versions go away. I have my SL1210 M5G on one (with Vibrapod cones above and silicone gel pads below) and it made a significant difference in draining the noise floor and improving dynamics and clarity--not that the Amadeus needs a lot of that. But again, I think the differences between the two TT versions would disappear.
I recommended it to an audio buddy who has a belt-drive Music Hall and he got great results as well.
Sorry Johnny, tried a Mapleshade under one, horrible. Made it sound pesky and robbed it of its natural music making.
Chashas1, I actually put this same posting here along with Audioasylum and on Pinkfishmedia and was able to get quite a bit of feedback on the other forums as well. It was Jason Hector whom rights for several British magazine along with a few others whom said it would get better results from using the GTA version with a 20x2 as opposed to using a XXmk2 on the standard version - and seeming that I used to assist in demos where Linn used to show the importance of the best Table first rule followed by tonearm and then the cartridge - always sounded better and made more logical sense then having a cheaper table with a state of the art tonearm and cartridge. It merely proved that in other to recieve all of the information buried in the grooves the table has to be up to par - as a friend of mine talks about the differences as heard to his ears in regard to Push Pull amps vs SET, which goes no one in their right might would build an amp that uses EL34's all out as they would with one based on 300B's or 845's that's like putting tires from Walmart on a BMW 750. In the end I got his point. For now I'm more concerned with getting the best version of the table I'm able to afford and worry about which route to go as far as better cartridges at a later date - Don also likes the EMT - esd 15 on these tables as well where some have even recommended using the Dynavector XV-1t - not in my lifetime................, I'd rather have 2-3 backup cartridges for that price, but that's just me being particle. Or cheap - it's one or the other. Regards, Oscar
I meant to say EMT - tsd15 cartridge, to which I'm still waiting for Ken to do the review on 6moons. Speaking of which - Ken I'm sorry to hear about the lost of your Mom, here's hoping you're better and we'll see you back writing soon!, and our hearts go out to you and yours. Be well, Oscar
Yes, tis true, source first. But in this case you're getting a better looking table is all. Hector is behind the curve. He kept using his WTL ref with the horrible black damped platter. Finally he got on board with the Amadeus. But I no longer trust his ears. I believe the British importer has dropped the Amadeus in favor of the fancier looking GTA. Marketing choice only. Either way you have a great table and great cartridge. Love the 20, the xx2, and the EMT 15. Beautiful cartridges all.
Chashas1, Trust me................, I do understand what you're getting at in regards to the table options as well as Hector. Yet what's the deal with the black damped platters being used on the older model?, did I miss something by using one on my Classic MK V as opposed to the original frosted one from years prior?. In the end I'll trust my ears and not my eyes before parting with the funds, but it great to have a guideline and know what's what with the DPS as well as the cartridges. All of you've made the selection process that much easier for me, and I thank you all once again for your willingness to share. Regards, Oscar
I use to give Hector the business on using the black platter. We always thought it was too much and robbed the table of life. Perhaps it was a synergy thing between systems, but in any system I heard it the original firebaugh acrylic was always preferred. I didn't like what Transparent did to it.
I'm using an early version of the Amadeus with 3 feet and isolation platter.
If buying today I'd probably spring for the GTA as well, it does look snazzier. I love all your cartridge picks. Guess it depends on wallet and rest of system.
Oh, and Lonnie Smith will be playing at Jazz at the Bistro in St Louis.
Oscar, last I checked, I believe Don Better has both tables (albeit the GTA has the Dynavector arm) and he also has the power supply. You should be able to listen to both. Trust your ears but also consider that Don is a professional musician and professor of music and knows how to listen.;-)
The other table Don has is the Dynavector WTL table. It does indeed have the Dynavector tonearm, but a smaller plinth than the GTA. So there are three tables. Amadeus, GTA with fancy finish and black ball, and Dynavector table.
Hi Chashas1 and Plinko, I've owned three different version of the Classic since 1993 and the first one was the square motored version with the acrylic platter which back then Corey Greenberg was raving about the Damped Black Platter and so on I never gave it much thought to compare the two. So in hindsight, I should've stayed with the original platter all along - who knew!. And Plinko, while I was at Don's last year he had both tables in and both were very nice looking, and that Dynavector Tonearm would allow me to rotate between Stereo and Mono Cartridges much easier as my jazz collection is about 50/50, but in the end it comes down to synergy and here's where I'm sticking with the original Amadeus as meant to be heard from its designers standpoint as opposed to the New Zealand distrubtor whom has based this combination on said convenience due to his ties with Dynavector. As it stands right now................., I'm going after the table - the DPS power supply and the Auditorium 23 LP Mat and merely purchase extra cartridges between 4/6 months down the road as I already have 4 different ones set aside in storage. I tend to read between the lines in said topics and have pursued the following cartridges as a means to suit taste/mood much easier - Soundsmith Carmen - Denon A-100 - Audio Technica AT-33EV as well as a Lyra Dorian Mono, the 20x2 will be what I've installed on either table until my budget can allow the XXmk2 which is where I'm done price wise. Once again I rather have multiple cartridges in hand to explore various results and not be limited by caught up based upon prices along, I know quite a few Asian TW Acustic Raven owners whom are using AT - 33PTG's on theirs and rave about them. Regards, Oscar
Do be sure to report back your findings on these carts and the DPS.
Oscar, spot on!
Monos with a great mono cartridge are delightful.
So is it the Amadeus or GTA?
Hi roscoeiii and Chashas1, I shall report my findings on both the cartridges and the DPS, Chashas1, after talking to Mike at DynavectorUSA about an hour ago on the phone...................., I'm going after the GTA!, it just mades more since in the long run considering just how long I've been investing in this line, and sonce I've mentioned this is my last go round - I'd have thinking about if I made the wrong decision by going with the cheaper one!, now it's just a matter of getting through the Holidays with the family and only then treating myself with a shiny new toy or two in January!. Either way my table quest is over - next stage a nice James Burgess Audio customized 300B SET Integrated Amp to put in front of my DeVore Gibbon 3's as I'm also aware that John used an Audio Note 300B based amp while voicing his speakers and it only makes sense to hear them as they were intended to be heard and only then will I know the Truth. And for those of you following this - the Gibbon 3XL's are a joke either. Peace Beyond To You All, Oscar
Congratulations El34eh, you will love the GTA. I doubt you will glance in the rear view mirror. Regardless if it's 5 or 10 percent better, it is a great table. Another cartridge that may be worth future consideration is the Ortofon Royal N. I think the Royal, along with the Tsd-15 and XX-2 would all be worth exploring.
Hi Fjn04, Thanks for your endorsement, and I'll take it upon myself to research the Ortofon Royal N. as you've mentioned. No matter what?, this is my last go round at this and I'd rather be done with it and get back to what I enjoy the most about this hobby - chasing down those rare and long forgotten treasures called Black Gold ( Vinyl ), the hunt is what keeps me focused................, just finding that one extra Blue Note DG Mono or Prestige DG Mono or Columbia 6-eye Mono in Mint/NM condition is what it's all about for me - THE MUSIC. Take care all of you and thanks for your assistance with this, I got it from here. Regards,Oscar
Fjn04, I've just got finished researching that Ortofon SPU Royal N, great call I think it looks very interesting to say the least. I for one know that many overseas WTL Table uses love this line as well and that many tend to overlook older brands based on what the newer designs bring - but looking very carefully at what I've seen the trend seems to be going full circle to many of the cartridge designs that were renowned for Musicality in those Golden Days where analogue was the only game in town - look at what's happening with the Shindo 301 - it's tonearm and its cartridge as well the return to the use of EMT cartridges on this size of the pond. To my mind many of the MC cartridges that have been produced since the introduction of CD's are more tailored to mimic their resolution at the overall expense of musicality - in other words away from texture - warmth and tonality towards Hi-Rez. Thanks for the tip................, it certainly makes my short list of ones to try out. Very very very good catch once again. Regards, Oscar
OK, so after reading the comments above I decided to add the upgraded power supply. At first I didn't hear any difference, but when started doing "A-B" comparisons, I did hear a reduction in motor noise....I don't know how or why this would happen. The funny thing is I never noticed any motor noise previously until I did the "before and after" test. I did have to adjust my platter speed when I added the power supply. Final note: The supplied 12V cable from the PS to the TT isn't the longest, and the power supply box is fairly large. Unless your TT is on a good-sized platform, you may have a longer run than the cable will permit...I suppose you can scrounge up a different cable, but that was my only issue with the PS.
It sounds like WTL is addressing that and will be giving a longer connector wire so you can place on floor or wherever. It was too short for my setup as well.
Hi guys, After speaking with Mike about the power cord issues , as I need at least an 8' lenght from the stand to a dedicated AC outlet just left of my system, I was told he could source longer cords as well. In the end I'm merely going for the best sound quality I'm able to get from this table and finally move on to a nice SET 300B Integrated Amp and chill for whatever time I've left on the planet!. Once again much thanks to all of you for your willingness to help me figure this all out. Regards, Oscar
The cable from the upgraded power supply to the turntable base is a simple one, with a male RCA on the PS end and a standard DC power plug on the other. As long as you respect polarity, it should be feasible to make your own cord in the length you need.
The PS upgrade is worth it. I got mine a couple of days ago and have noticed increased air, detail and rhythmic drive on every cut I've listened to. I would be curious to know if cryo treatment of the PS cord mades any sonic difference.
Hi Tobias, Thanks for the tip, I wondered just how that worked with the cord arrangement that is. Regards, Oscar