Want to get into Analog

Freediver, I’m glad you posted on Mrpostfire’s thread as I was going to respond to yours, but by then you seemed to have made your decision to not try vinyl. I followed your thread and as I read Mrpostfire’s OP I searched for a way to describe what I feel was not conveyed nearly well enough in most of the responses to yours. Mrpostfire, I hope you don’t mind the “dual purpose” of my post on your thread.

Freediver stated that the comments to his thread were “eye opening”. I would say that the vinyl experience can also be eye opening and I would be the last to discourage anyone from trying it as many posters unfortunately did.

For me and many others, there is a fundamental difference in the way that vinyl presents recorded music in contrast to the way that digital does it. I know some will disagree with this premise as well as the idea that it is not necessary to invest in very expensive, or SOTA playback equipment to hear (and feel) this fundamental difference. Both can sound great while retaining their fundamentally different ways of sounding great. IMO, even at freediver’s $350 budget that fundamental difference will be there. That fundamental difference resonates with some listeners and not as much with others. A very personal matter; but, when that difference resonates it can trump other aspects of the listening experience that are mostly audiophillic in nature and, for some, not as important to the music. Unless one tries it there is no way of knowing.

There were and will be lots of different suggestions for tables. Looking through the listings here this caught my eye. As offered, this table is a good example of what is possible within Freediver’s general budget. IMO, it would give a good taste of what vinyl does well. With a well chosen cartridge upgrade and closer to Mrpostfire’s budget it would give a bigger taste; possibly much bigger taste. Yes, the fiddling that Freediver doesn’t want to do can make an important difference, but it is not necessary to find out if the difference resonates with you. (No affiliation to seller).

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9c4hd-thorens-td-166-mkii-turntables

Good luck to both of you and do try vinyl; it can be eye opening.

Nice post, whart.

**** But where you realize magic is pretty individual ****

Exactly! That was precisely the point of my post. Most of us who have been in this hobby for a long time know all too well that what is considered “better” sound is often very individual. “Magical”? .... that takes the question to an entirely higher level of individuality. To say that a well chosen and very expensive vinyl playback system would sound better than a budget system is stating the obvious; but, I also chuckle at the attempts to assign a specific price point to when it is that the “magic” happens.

For this individual there is a fundamental difference in the way that analog sounds compared to digital. It can be a very subtle difference which gets more and more subtle as the quality of the gear in question improves (more expensive...usually). Other times, depending on the recording, the difference is huge. However, my point was that this fundamental difference can be heard (to varying degrees) even with a modestly priced, well chosen and well set up truntable system. Whether that difference constitutes “magic” for any one listener is another matter entirely. Many listeners new to lp playback are immediately turned off by the presence of even the slightest bit of lp surface noise to the extent that this obfuscates for them what analog is doing right. Others are not and are turned on by the qualitative difference in the sound and their emotional reaction to it; and, for them, it rings true in a way that some digital playback does not. Is he the type of listener that has to sit in “the sweet spot” to enjoy the experience? Or, is he the type of listener that can fully enjoy the music while being in the adjoining room? Again, a personal matter. What is “better”? How much experience does the listener have with live music and what are the preferred genres? These are not judgmental questions as they are often made out to be, but they factor into how the difference is perceived. However, to deem it necessarily a waste of money to not initially invest thousands of dollars to get one’s feet wet in the analog experience? Hardly! Again, it should be obvious that my tricked out TNT6/ET2 setup would sound a lot better than a modestly priced vintage Thorens. But, tell you what, the reason that listing caught my eye was that a neighbor and fellow audiophool owns that same model Thorens and in the context of his modest well chosen system that turntable sounds, to me as well as him, consistently more “magical” than a couple of currently (recently?) popular mid level CD players (OPPO, EAD, ?) that have gone through his system.

Your mention of the AR XA brought back some memories. My first decent turntable was back in college when I purchased a Technics SL-1700 (or, was it 1600?). I was perfectly happy with it and its ADC XLM going into vintage SAE electronics and EPI speakers (I’m showing my age). Perfectly happy until my college buddy brought over his AR XA with XLM. Well, magic would be a pretty good way of describing what I heard as the difference. Having said all that my next turntable will probably be a Technics SP10; or something along those lines.

Personally, I think every person who fancies him/her-self an audiophile and music lover should experience, first hand, analog sound in their system and on their terms (time, place, etc). It may not strike that chord that it does for some; but, it may and at least they’ll know for sure.

**** Do I get more enjoyment out of it than my digital sources? Yes! ****

**** ....more than anything else I get more involved in listening to records than digital sources ****

Honest question: So, what exactly is it that, for you, still makes your digital sources “better”?

big_greg, thanks for your response. I’m trying to get a better sense of what you consider to be “better” sound; while admitting that you get more enjoyment from the (apparently) lesser.  “Revealing” can mean different things to different listeners and isn’t always at the top of list of priorities for some listeners. Feel free to expound if you would like. Thanks again.

orpheus10, I learned a long time ago that it is pointless to try and have a meaningful dialogue with you. Case of “Mars and Venus”; and that is being very generous. As usual, you are missing the point with your insistence on “winning” an argument that should never have become an argument. Please look for the argument elsewhere. Peace.

big_greg, it does help; a lot. Thanks for sharing; and for making MY point.  Regards.

👍👍👍👍

Again, you are missing the point. If you weren’t so predisposed to interpreting others’ comments the way that you want to see them it would be clear. I’ll try it one last time (with you).

For starters, suggesting that the reason that someone does not see things from your point of view is that he beat you to the bong is an argument by any standard. But, that’s your style and I know it well. Unfortunate. Straight ahead.

Now, if you had cared to really read my comments you would see that the only gear that I have “recommended” as worthwhile is “well chosen and well set up” budget gear; specifically the vintage Thorens that I linked. This, as a way to encourage those wanting to try vinyl for the first time while staying within their stated budget, or very close to it, to try it. IMO, it IS possible to get a taste of what many find so “involving” about analog while staying within their stated budgets. Funny, how quick some are to spend other people’s money. Also funny is how that budget figure gets smaller and smaller each time you quote it. Have you ever heard a well set up vintage Thorens? I doubt it. You would be shocked at how close it would come to your beloved Rega as far as playing MUSIC goes; and, for some, in some specific ways, it does it even better. Please reread my comments if you want more specific details as to why I feel the way I do. If that is not enough then read, if you haven’t already, big_greg’s comments as to why he enjoys listening to his lp’s more than his digital, finding the experience more “involving”. Those comments sum things up very nicely.

What is “better” music playback? That which scores points in all the “audiophile” criteria, but doesn’t keep you glued to your listening chair digging the music? Or, that which does? For me it’s a no-brainer.