It makes a statement that they feel SACD is a worthwhile format. They have always done a good job on Redbook I would like to hear what they do with SACD. It aslo leads me to think they have reached a Redbook sound they are satisfied with and aren't invest any more in it, well maybe.
Of course all just my opinion.
There is no reason to think that by implementing SACD there would be any less emphasis on redbook. I would guess that many things that make SACD better would also apply to Redbook.
The more manufacturereres (i have a hard time pronouncing that word) that implement SACD technology the more it might catch on with the public. I hope that's the case because i love SACDs!
It might be that they feel sales on their cdps are not what they should be because some potential customers fear that SACD might some day take off and they don't want to be left having bought the wrong player.
sacd's developement is winding down with all music companies with the exception of a few fring audiophile companies. Wadias entrance is more about having a toe-in to fight the competition of existing players than the future. sacd's sales numbers are dwindling fast. At this point, only cd's and vinyl will share the future with the ipod.
I agree w/ Jaybo. The tragedy of SACD is that it could have been the digital playback standard from the beginning, but nobody at Sony-Phillips wanted to rock the boat, even back when the "boat" was just an innertube! So we're stuck with Redbook.
The good news is that:
A. DACs (and even transports) are improving, and frankly, I don't believe Wadia's proprietary Digimaster algorhithm software has been updated since the original company was taken over by the investors 10 years ago (the brains were not included in the takeover!) That's why GNSC (Steve Huntley was one of those brains) is able do do "miracle mods" on the new Wadia stuff. But there's some really great digital source equipment out there now that can equal even modified Wadia gear.
B. The reproduction available from HDCDs and XRCDs through the best Redbook DACs (even without HDCD chips) rivals that of SACD, and both of those formats are being improved further.
C. The discoveries made recently by the Reality Check re-recording folks, along with the increasing popularity of HDD (server-based) sources will continue add fidelity and convenience to the current digital (Redbook) standard.
And I'm an analog guy! Too bad about the collapse of SACD though. The DSD (Direct Stream Digital) technique should have been the way digital was done from the outset.
Jaybo nailed it...
Wadia + SACD simply means Wadia bringing in some funding to keep the company going... A mistake? No, its all about the benjamins, and being they have had tons of difficulty keeping a steady business its probably a good move for them, just cause they see sony can market a 5000.00 machine obviously they know the potential for the hard core audiophiles to buy an even better machine from them with the Wadia name on it which will hold pretty good value in the high end market. Technologicaly speaking will it be a good move for Wadia? Don't know, we will see if they can compete with the best SACD players as they do in the redbook, but that will be up to us I guess in the end, however I would say it is a little late in the game to jump the SACD gun, cause the market is already saturated in overpriced players for this format as well.
I recently read that SACD is extremly simple to "piggyback" onto a redbook circuit.
Seems DVD-A is not.
I just shipped my Sony DVP-9000ES for repairs.
The clerk at the UPS store remaked how heavy a DVD player it was. I explained that it was the first SACD player and very well built.
She said: "What is SACD?" (she seemd truly interested).
I think the reason SACD failed among the masses is that Sony did not spend the $$$ to get the word out.
Did anyone see the Superbowl commercials touting SACD?
Score another for the bean counters...
Nsgarch - Not only is there a consensus that Steve Huntley does phenomenol rework on ARC and Wadia gear, but this last week I was able to witness his magic on just the first pass of him tweaking my Manley Ref DAC. It's not just an issue of replacing one part with another, but rather to know what type and possible value-change of a component to use. And not only was he able to identify what to change when he first popped the cover on the unit, but the results were absolutely stunning with just a handful of changes. It says much about the stock Manley unit but it says as much about Steve when he could bring on so much improvement with a little bit of effort. Now that's talent.
Compared to his Wadia DAC (actually, 270SE/27 combo), the stock Manley did very well in the mids but fell quite short at the extremes. But after the first round of mods, there was extension and openness on the top that I truly never would have thought possible with this unit. To get even half of the impreovements that Steve achieved would have been wonderful. Other than more definition in the bass with the Wadia, the modified Manley was right there and in fact excelled in many areas.
Next week when Steve completes the other half of the rework, if he can bring on the same degree of extension in the low-end, I will have a unit that performs at the level of all the DAC-of-the-month club models that are getting all the praise today. With this kind of performance, I am content to stay with redbook CDs. And I too am an analog guy which is why I like the Manley so much.
Until Steve's update, I was about to let go of the Manley and seek a "modern" model. And Steve's Virtual Dynamics PC did not allow the Manley to do its magic. Fortunately the Purist Dominus PC came to the rescue or this too could have been the end of the Manley. The Wadia is a nice setup but ohhhhhhhhhhh man, the updated Manley with the Dominus. Thanks a million Steve.
i don't think that it's about making a mistake @ Wadia by offering SACDs in their latest models. Their hand was "forced" so to say: TEAC has stopped making redbook only VRDS transports. They decided to make multiformat transports using some of their new technology. It's called the VRDS-Neo with the "Neo" having a dual meaning - Neo as in new & Neo because it uses Neodymium magnets.
Wadia had decided long ago that these VRDS transports were one of the keys to good sound & since they wanted to keep using VRDS transports, they had no choice but to offer multi-format players.
The DigiMaster algorithm has been getting updates regularly - if you look thru an 860 manual & an 861 manual, if I remember correctly, there is diff in version. However, there are only minor tweaks as the algorithm is pretty solid & completely debugged. It also is to Wadia's liking so they are not going to mess w/ it merely to update it for updating's sake.
Ok, I'll take the bite. I Have a Wadia 850 cd player and would like to hear from anyone who own a Wadia 850 and has had Steve do upgrades on their Wadia 850.
BTW, I'll take any well recorded cd that was recorded on good analogue equipment any day over those recorded on most digital machines to include what I have heard on some sacd
The new Wadia players DO NOT use VRDS-Neo transport mechanisms. What basicly happend, was that Teac priced-out Wadia from using it. They just wanted too much for them, so Wadia had to start using different (i.e. - non Teac)drive.
hello all ,i must say some great answers on wadia and sacd. I fill that there is so much more that can be obtained through red book mode with more R/D that to put to much effort into sacd when this format is technically [dead in the water] is just a waste ... steve huntley must be doing something right or i believe his backing concerning his expertise in gnsc modifications would not even be an issue ... bombaywalla you hit the nail on the head concerning wadias step into sacd waters... thanks...
In my opinion SACD (hybrid) is going to be around for awhile and if a manufacturer wants to compete in the digital arena they need to offer it on their players; which is probably the case with Wadia. It has been my experience that SACD sounds superior to redbook in the majority of CD's that I own. And if available I always purchase the hybrid disc over the redbook only counterpart. As far as XRCD they are far to expensive to even consider me buying them as well as to limited in the selection available. And with HDCD not enough players available to play the format and limited material avaialability. I would never consider purchasing a player that could not play SACD's. But again this my preference and others have theirs.
SACD can sound VERY good, but too many of the discs available are miserably average in recording quality and can barely compete with high-quality standard CDs. Just as bad, the prices for SACDs are typically far too high. This is why I gave up on the format.
BMR3HC - I own a GNSC modified 850. I did not hasve it modified, but had an unmodified 830 before. The modified 850 wasa significant improvement over the 830 in terms of bass extension, image depth and 3 dimensionality (the sounds popped out more, making the 830 sound flat by comparison, and a slight improvemnet in naturalness and harmonic resolution. I have no way of knowing, though, how much of the improvement was du to the mods and how much was due to the change from 830 to 850. Steve said that most of the improvement was due to the mods, and that the main difference between the 850 naqnd the 830 was the 850s ability to better differentiate musical aprts on complex musical pieces.
Bmr3hc: I had an 850, got it modified by GNSC, and liked it so much that I later committed to buying a GNSC 861. IMO the GNSC mod is worth the price. BTW, I've tried a couple of top Sony SACD players for home audition of this format, and I still like the Wadia Redbook sound better. Perhaps I just didn't hear the best that SACD playback can offer. It will be interesting to hear how Wadia does SACD.....
As a former 270 / 27i owner I would suggest you guys consider a used EMM Labs CDSD / DCC2 combo- street price is in the $8000 range. This combo absolutely destroys the 270 / 27i, renders the Wadia virtually unlistenable. If you want a significant improvement over the CDSD / DCC2 belly up to the big bar and spring for the new Signiture Edition CDSD / DCC2. The SACD playback is state of the art, the Redbook performance is very close to the SACD and will blow you away- it's really that good. An additional plus- you can drive your amp(s) directly with the superb analog pre-amp section of the DCC2. I was never satisfied with the 27i Sledgehammer output stage driving power amps, it had a very lean and skeletal sound.
fbhifi; the thread reads is wadia making a mistake implementing sacd into their new product line....not "your" brand name preference...
Aolmrd1241: I'm sorry to have criticized your Wadia gear. I thought that some of the participants / readers of your thread would find the comparison of value. To answer your question- No, Wadia is not making a mistake incorporating SACD playback capability into future machines- SACD performance will, if executed correctly, surpass CD performance.