Kmelancon, be sure to use error correction when ripping to Lossless and wav. I'm using the Wadia 170i with the internal, upconverting DAC of my Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD player, using an iPod Classic 160G as the transport. The results are stunning, with undetectible differences between the RBCD playback and the iPod via Wadia/Playback Designs..
There are a few files on my iPod that don't sound quite right and I suspect that I recorded them without error correction, or the files got corupted some other way. When I'm certain that the file is correct, then the performance is excellent.
The Bel Canto DAC 3 reclocks doesn't it? If so, then I'd think that you'd get good results. Are you running the CDP into the Bel Canto when doing the CD vs. iPod comparison? If not, it's possible that your CDP's DAC is better than the Bel Canto (generally unlikely, but possible).
Dave |
Kmelancon asked:
"Dave,
...
Have you tried the comparison between lossless and wav yourself?"
No, I only compared the original CD to lossless, using the iPod G160 as the transport and my Playback Designs MPS-5 as the DAC. For CD I used the Playback Designs. I couldn't distinguish between the original CD and the lossless files.
In your tests, did you use the same DAC? Which DAC did you use?
Dave |
Chrissain, which DAC was the Wadia going through and which DAC was the CDP going through?
Thanks,
Dave |
Here's something else for Chrissain and his crew to try, if they're interested. Record the same error corrected lossless files on another iPod. If possible, use a Nano with a flash drive, then run the same comparison.
Tvad told me in another thread that he's had troubles with iPods as transports. That may be my occasional issue and it may be what's happening with Chissain's listening group. This is a pretty easy extra step that should remove doubt as to whether it's their Wadia or their iPod that's degrading the signal.
Dave |
So you used the DAC3 for both? If so, which digital input did you use on the DAC3 and was the same IC used on both sources?
How does the CD 2 by itself compare to the CD2/DAC3 combo?
I'm not trying to bust your chops. It's just that my experience with the MPS-5's DAC is totally different from yours with the DAC3. Both DACs reclock and focus a lot on jitter reduction, but perhaps there's a difference there. It's easy to understand that the Wadia's ultimate performance is DAC-dependent. Still, I would have expected better performance with a DAC3. I've received excellent reports with the Benchmark and Emm DACs.
Dave |
I would like to add:
When I first received my Wadia, I plugged in and connected it to my Playback Designs MPS-5's DAC and started listening. Generally everything was very good, BUT some recordings sounded tonally off, to the extent that vocal character was distorted. Diane Hubka, for instance, sounded a little throatier than usual.
This is despite having ripped all my archive with lossless and error correction turned. Still, I re-ripped several of the offending CDs and the coloration went away.
I having a feeling that, since Mr. Jobs doesn't give a crap about high fidelity, lossless may not be 100% reliable, even with error correction. All were ripped from a crappy computer transport. I have occasionally had to abort a rip because the error correction was slowing things down slower than real-time. When I re-ripped, then the transfer speeded up, but still showed some delay due to error correction.
So, I'm here trying to review the Wadia and I'll say without reservation that it's an excellent performer when fed accurate files and played through an excellent DAC. However, as this thread shows, YMMV.
In my system, third generation files played back through the iPod/Wadia/MPS-5 combination sound superior to the original CDs played through either my Oppo or Pioneer Elite DV-58AV. The same third generation files can't be distinguished from the original CD played through the PD MPS-5 CDP.
Dave |
One last step I'd suggest, if you interested, re-rip some of the lossless files with error correction into iTunes and resync the iPod. As I noted earlier, I found some faulty files on my iPod even though all had been recorded in lossless with error correction. The faults that I heard were obvious and required no "golden ear" to hear, but when I re-ripped the files I couldn't tell the iPod files apart from the original CD.
My computer's soundcard is nothing extra special, just a mid+ level Nvidia. Still, I wonder how the card quality might impact ripping transfers. I KNOW that not using error correction yields some horrid results. Since we all used EC that's not necessarily the fault, EXCEPT that I have had some bad transfers even with EC. I don't know what gives.
There was a guy here on A'gon trying to get bit-perfect rips and actually tested after the fact with some program and was able to achieve it with lossless. I can find a bunch of "bit perfect" threads but not the one I'm thinking of.
Dave |
Brian, I have no idea if the audio card has any impact in disc replication or not. I just mentioned it in case it does.
Tvad made a good point in another thread, he suggested that the iPod might be reading inconsistantly. He suggests that the files could be fine, but the iPod isn't always reading accurately. If and when I get another bad sounding cut I'll investigate the iPod itself, disconnecting it, rebooting it, throw it against the wall (oops, maybe not) to see if the file isn't read properly later. My iPod Classic 160G is not a flash device, so its mechanical aspects could certainly be suspect. Including the Wadia, it's likely the weakest link in my system.
Dave |
Ecruz asked:
"You touched on a question that I had. How do you search and scroll while using the Wadia remote?"
It's really only a forward and back, play, pause and stop. You need to use the iPod wheel for large jumps. Someone needs to write a program for the iPhone to use it as a remote in this dock.
Dave |
Kurt, so you're saying that the problem is with the lossless files, NOT the Wadia, right?
Dave |
Nice follow up Chrissain. That would explain a lot. Thank you very much for continuing to pursue what you heard and reporting to us.
That may also explain why I don't hear a difference, my DAC does the upsampling, not the transport. The Playback Designs MPS-5 uses an really fine Esoteric transport, but the upsampling to DSD is done in the DAC section, so my iPod/Wadia benefits the same from upsampling as my CD transport does.
If you still had the Wadia you could test further by using another CDP as a transport to feed your DAC and compare to the iPod/Wadia. I suspect that the difference would disappear. In your system, now that we know what's going on, it's easy to understand why you'd prefer the upsampling CD transport to the iPod.
Dave |
