Vpi vs. TW Acustic

My analog rig consists of a VPI Aries I, Triplanar, and Benz LP. My SoCal dealer suggests the Grand Prix Monaco TT should be my next move. However I don't have that kind of moola lying around and just try finding a used one. It ain't happening. So, would the TW Raven One be a big improvement over the the Aries or too much of a sideways move? And without the opportunity to audition, too risky?
I bought the TW Raven AC unheard.It was the wisest move I have done.I am ready to upgrade to their new flagship,the BLACK NIGHT.I will sell mine asap because I trust Thomas Woschnick for his achievements
Member Madfloyd did just do what you are considering. His rig is not yet set up but you may want to contact him.
Hifi Gary,

Is you're dealer Brooks Berdan?
Taters:...Shhhhhhh.....he may find out about my "infidelity". Seriously, in his opinion to make a huge improvement its the GP Monaco or nothing , or at least nothing else he carries. I'm looking for something with greater speed control, better belt , a smaller footprint (my Aries with flywheel motor is 26 in wide)and of course better sound at a manageable price.

In case you're still interested in a VPI, check out TAS (June/July issue) review of the new VPI Classic Turntable. HP says that this is the best VPI's system yet, including those with rim drives. He goes on to even to say that it holds its own against the Clearaudio Statement ($150,000) turntable. There is also in the review some good explanations of the technologies behind the new design.


Hifi Gary,

I have the same table as you minus the triplanar. I have heard the table in question and I personally would not buy it. I asked Brooks about the TW Raven and he didn't have much to say about it. I would suggest finding someone that has the table and listen to it.
Taters, no offense but Brooks, whom I have known for a long time, also had nothing much to say about the Galibier line because at the time I mentioned it he had never heard of it... As for another VPI table?...no thanks.

It seems that you're pretty set on the TW Raven One. It looks to me that most Raven owners have made the purchase without auditioning the table and they're very satisfied with it. If you don't want take the risk, there are currently two TW Acustic tables for sale here in Audiogon, one Raven One and one AC.

You haven't said what you don't like about your analog setup.
Hifi Gary,

I meant you should try and listen to the TW Raven table. I was not telling you to buy another VPI. I understand where you are coming from.
If you want a small footprint, the One is the one to go for, excuse the pun. Thomas says the One gives 95% of the performance of the AC at ? less than half price. Mine is the last table I will ever need. It is built to last a lifetime.
How about a used SME 10? It too is built to last a lifetime and at around $4K used, a very good value. It is a solid, quiet and stable platform for any number of arm/cartridge combos though I have only heard an SME arm on mine. There is also no fuss. Once set up, it stays that way.
No brick and mortar dealer can sell every line. The honest ones, such as Brooks, will tell you if they've never heard something that's of interest. He can only recommend what he sells and knows. Makes sense to me.

Can you articulate what you feel you are missing with your current setup. What does the Aries do or not do that you find deficient?

Wendell, I agree. Just trying to get much better sound, speed, and noise control that you get with the GP. The Aries is a good table but since I recently acquired the Triplanar I feel the table is somewhat of a weak link. Brooks has often told me that its too bad that GP does not make a cheaper table. Its a little frustrating that some great tables such as TW, Galibier, and others are not readily accessible for auditioning.
I have had many turntables i now have RAVEN AC1 heard TW RAVEN 1 A GREAT very musical table !!!

If the VPI Classic is as good as the hype it may be a significant but affordable upgrade to the Aries. The last time I talked with Brooks he still had not received one from Harry due to some manufacturing issues with the platter. I'm not even in the market but would like to hear it.


I upgraded from a VPI Scoutmaster with 9Sig arm to a TW Acustic Raven One with a Graham Phantom.
Yes it's a major upgrade that offers BOTH the HiFi goodies and more importantly, the musically significant upgrades as well. Check out Wayne Garcia's write-up of the Raven One in the current issue of TAS.
He pretty much nails the sound and value of the Raven One.
As a bonus, Jeff at Highwater Sound is a great guy to deal with and will guide you properly.

If after adding the Triplanar there is still something missing, you should perhaps look into the phono preamp.

In many analog setups, the phono stage can make a huge difference. I think it'll help to mention what phono preamp you're currently using.

After having the EAR 324 for about 1 1/2 years, I recently added the Einstein Turntable's Choice phono preamp (single ended) and it made a huge improvement over the 324.
Isanchez and others, thanks for your suggestions. I have not decided on any table yet. I welcome opinions on any table that may come into play. BTW my preamp is a Hovland hp100 w/ MC... I think I may pay Brooks a visit today for some free analog therapy!

Good luck with your analog therapy! If you can, you should perhaps audition some phono preamps while you are at your dealer. You'll be surprised at how different the same analog setup can sound with various phono preamps.

The Hovland is outstanding. In my opinion you're going to have to spend alot to get significantly better.

One of the biggest "phoney" rip offs in the high end is on the turntable front!!Here,most folks simply go for the biggest hype products,and seldom use common sense to make a personal decision.

The table is meant to "simply" spin a record,without adding much of it's own character.Of course getting it "perfect" is kinda tough,but there are a host of not very pricey tables that will do the job most admirably.

Yet,this is high end audio,and alot of folks like to think they are getting better performance,because they have spent alot of money.These are the not too high audio IQ hobbyists,who are led by the nose by audio reviewers or,as in the case on this thread(from personal experience)by audio retailers,who have ONE agenda....guess what that might be?

A good VPI or Sota will knock the socks off of the over-priced,underdesigned(but OH So Pretty)Raven!

You also get a Company that is local(in the USA)and will probably be around after the economy shakes out....yet....

Common sense does not always prevail in high end audio!!

Best to all
Sirspeedy, before I read your response I ( with my dealer's advice) decided to keep my Aries and upgrade my nearly worn out Benz LP to a Benz LP-S as a more economical and immediate way of improving the front end instead of a wholesale change of the table. I also got a new platter belt which has made an improvement-BTW VPI's belts leave a lot to be desired-what with stretching over time and costing 20 bones a piece! But better that than the cost of a new belt along with a new table.
Sirspeedy, I would have agreed with you years ago, but comparing the TW to some very fine turntables yielded a distinct sonic improvement. Much to be said by the wonderful motor, vibration dissipation, and sonic performance. I know you have your disappointments, but most people who don't have "full range" systems capable of playing bass would not hear a difference between many very good tables. But when you get to the level of a true full range system, the differences in design, isolation, speed stability and energy dissipation become very apparent.
One of the biggest "phoney" rip offs in the high end is on the turntable front!!Here,most folks simply go for the biggest hype products,and seldom use common sense to make a personal decision.

The table is meant to "simply" spin a record,without adding much of it's own character.Of course getting it "perfect" is kinda tough,but there are a host of not very pricey tables that will do the job most admirably.

Yet,this is high end audio,and alot of folks like to think they are getting better performance,because they have spent alot of money.These are the not too high audio IQ hobbyists,who are led by the nose by audio reviewers or,as in the case on this thread(from personal experience)by audio retailers,who have ONE agenda....guess what that might be?

A good VPI or Sota will knock the socks off of the over-priced,underdesigned(but OH So Pretty)Raven!
I agree with you.
Unfortunatey it is not the performance, which counts today. Most buyers have different priorities and of course everyone thinks, he got the best (whatever it is).
The customer normally compares old with new, the usual mistake. An old belt is inferior to a new one, old bearing oil is ....yes, you know.
Most want something, they don‘t know what, but the "machine has to do something", it has to be fast, it has to be powerful in Bass or whatever.
Most units today are highly colored. That means too, they have "something" in some frequency which is always there, "a kind of speed" for example, that means, even Schubert will sound fast, or they have no good abilities in the high frequency range (based on non existing vibration abilities etc....)
But only a few want a 1:1 unit (recording:reproduction), they don‘t know what to do, because it can be possible, that they don‘t like what they hear.
Then it is bad (but in reality it could be right) and they lok for something else. They don‘t know for what, but they know it has to be out there.

20 years ago the magazines had a different policy, they tried - in general - to push the curtain and they made serious comparisons. That's gone. Today it is business, every month a new Hype and we all know, how it can be made.

I listened to the Raven AC a lot of times, well, it is black and heavy.
The Linn LP12 of today.
Sirspeedy, I'm a VPI fan but have you heard the Raven? It seems to be a very good table. Are you speaking from direct experience?
I have to admit I had expected some nasty responses to my "opinion".Impressive that Audiogon "can" be polite when a favorite product is criticized.I think anyone has this right.

The recent thoughts are pretty much on the money,imo,and I have heard the Raven on quite a few occassions.Not really as important as one might think,if you want to break down what a good LP spinner should do!

From 40 years in the hobby,there are some aspects of table design that simply seem to be a good idea,at the very least....

The TW Acoustic Raven does NOT emply them!

This does not mean it cannot allow a record to sound "good",but it is easily bettered by a "Boat Load" of competitive tables,and to go into denial mode only means one is defensive of how their money has been spent.Or,as is so common on this forum,protective of a favored dealer,or group of audio pals.Sheesh!!

Two things come to mind,and it does not require extensive experience or a "full range" system(or even a really good system)to understand a "superior" design(of which the "pretty,and heavy" Raven is NOT).....

First,and products from VPI or SOTA researched this,understood it, and advocated it for years....A good record clamping system will allow the record to develop MUCH MORE inner detail!

Second(this is where SO many mfgrs simply drop the ball,and it is a shame that so many hobbyists are so damn defensive about it....an "effective" suspension!!!

Like a REAL ONE!!!

Oracle,VPI,SOTA,Linn,Walker,Anything designed by "Conti"/Basis Audio "ALL" know this,and if you read the white papers from some of these designers,it is NO stretch to understand that at the very least...."it's not a bad idea to have one".Oh,sorry!That was common knowledge long ago.This is the new high end stuff.Didn't I read recently about some $60,000 table that we should consider SOTA?

Of course one can get into stuff like heavy platters not "really" being all that they are hyped up to being.For example(and unless someone has truly developed something like a Kryptonite bearing)just using "common sense"(not common in the High End)wouldn't a heavier bearing ultimately begin to develop noise,from the mass and weight of "that" platter?Bushings don't like that!OK,I'm being a bit picky!!...

Not really,but I'm attempting to be "thoughtful about how my audio money should be spent.And,anyone is surely open to getting "whatever" they desire....Mine is ONLY a "thought piece"!....Phoney dealers,get rich from some of us putting too much stock in their motives,and attempt to be helpful.

The fact is that high end (at this point in time,and especially in this economy)requires a hobbyist to exercise some "thought" as to what they are buying,and "how" it approaches what they want it to do(the product at hand).

SORRY!I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers,but I do know of a hobbyist who only purchases stuff if it has a vibe of desirability,from a "cost and review popularity standpoint".The fact of the matter is,his set-up has never sounded anything beyond "average"(from a load of other folks familiar with the set-up).

Of course "his" dealer of the moment(who comes on like his "new" best pal)is not about to spoil things,so the beat surely will go on.....Laughable!!...

Btw,the room is attrocious!So,it's a pity actually,but he is happy!...Nothing really wrong there,actually.Yet,and yet,the guy is NOT a "thinking hobbyist",and has been at this for decades.

My advice is to educate oneself as to what is necessary to acquire accuracy in LP playback(or any other audio matter)and try to pick out the most "viable" choice.

You'd be surprised how sensitive a good consumer can be,in short order,especially when spending monies.....There is a load of baloney in "today's" high end!......Far more than at any other time!!Your dealer is NOT your pal!Just ask him if he wants to hang out some week-end!

Best to all
In deciding if a response is worthy or not, enough has been said that my input is needed.

No denying a top suspension is needed. This is correct. Also, I find little will compare to a turntable that has a separate suspension from the table. This is where turntables such as VPI & others can fall short. They are limited in their design to the suspension they can deploy. While an unsuspended deck can be designed with less compromise provided that an external suspension system is in use. Many people do use Vibrplanes, MInus K platforms or the like. There are even those who have suspended turntables that are placed on additional suspension knowing about the limitations of suspension design in the eixisting deck.

Unfortunately some posters here did not get off on a great foot w. certain dealers, or did not receive the discount they wanted towards a purchase and will bad talk a product in light of the fact that they didn't want to pay to own it. You know who you are. I don't find your tactics fair to the other members of this forum.
If the response is an insinuation towards my post,I might add that assuming something is meaningless in your case.If I am not the target,then I apologize whole heartedly!

If I am the subject of your response......you know "not" what you speak of...for sure!!

Discounting or bad experiences has "nothing" to do with a vastly overpriced product(not a bad product,btw,just easily bettered for less cash) in comparison to better,lower cost designs.Made "here",and for alot less dosh.

Take the VPI TNT for example...one half the cost and a far more advanced design.Usualy that equates to more detail from a disc.I assume that is what we are striving for.

Interesting thread. I'm not sure how much of it I find to agree with, but it is interesting in ways. Most of all, I find the opinions of the posters to be the most interesting part, not from a technical point of view, but a psychological one. Bantered back and forth are comparisons, even blanket ones, between various makes without any consideration based in true fact. Oh, well. I would like to see some concrete explanations of these premises presented, and I am pretty sure the original poster was hoping for some, too. Owning some brand of turntable doesn't make anyone a pro about sonic presentation of all turntables, suspensions, or anything else.

I suppose I'm a direct competitor of TW Acustic, but I don't believe it is fair for guys to summarily trash their turntable without something other than supposition and insinuation. So far, that's what we have seen, however. To name brands that are better without anything to back up the claims doesn't seem too credible to me.

My suggestion to the OP is that he seek out the turntable, and hear it for himself. Only then can he make an educated decision.

Sirspeedy et al, I do see SS's point. There IS a lot of unsubstantiated hype in today's market place, but there are also some great products. Like Mosin, I would feel more convinced of Sirspeedy's specific contention regarding the Raven (which one, for example?) vs VPI and Sota, if he were to cite his specific reasons. However, it is also true that once one has spent big bucks, it is darn near impossible to have a truly objective opinion about the item one has paid so much money for, unless it has been a total disaster. So this is definitely not a knock on Sirspeedy.

If you find the Raven overpriced, then I wonder how you find some other designs priced well above? You have me quite surprised. Then how is a tiny cartridge priced more than many a turntable for what is essential almost no material cost. I just don't get it. Do you honestly believe that a $1000 cartridge is that different in cost of production from a $8000 cartridge. You might as well condemn the whole audio industry. Which is how you described to me your sentiments earlier. And not in relation to a TW table but to your experience with other products. Are your listening biases the only ones to be accepted? I have listened with you in a few rooms years ago, and I would easily state that our biases diverge.

On to the VPI. Many an original owner of a VPI turntable, or SME, and quite a few others have gone away from suspended decks. I assume they all had to convince themselves they achieved better performance and couldn't hear any improvement since obviously the design of a suspended deck is far superior in your book. Note: how I am not mentioning just TW. The arguement here is more of a suspended vs. unsuspended. There are several adherents to both camps.

I might add, VPI and others have greatly improved the design of thier turntables since some of the newer decks have displaced them on the market. Many of the design improvements are for the better. I wonder why it took so long. Maybe competition in this case benefits the consumer. But the VPI isn't inexpensive or even less expensive. As a value at the lower end it is a great table. But the high end turntables are costly. The new platters have definitely improved the sound of recent. Based on discussions with owners of VPI tables, not all models are equal. I won't go into the specifics as I have no personal experience.

Finally, I have a friend w. a very high end turntable that borrowed my Raven motor. A motor that has been measured to be accurate to one of the highest rates possible. This measured by an independant reviewer and not at the motor but instead at the platter. If I recall correctly something like 0.03%. That is direct drive teritory. Also measured noise was incredibly low.

All I can say is my friends amazement of how such a motor improved the sound of what is already a very well engineered turntable that was rated class A in stereophile for many years. He immediately noticed the increase in speed accuracy from the reduction of noise and the improvement in tracking the inner tracks on an LP. Much of this performance can be had on the lowly Raven One.

You are being too black and white in your statements earlier and my response is in accordance. When you live with a turntable and have owned others then please have such a firm valuation of a specific brand. Mine are based on experience and for sure some personal bias. But... my friends w. lesser decks were not told that mine is better. I did mention the ease of changing, adjusting and running multiple tonearms. The speed stability and the ease of use or all excellent. And last is the bearing design is unique among turntables.

As far as a record clampling system, how does the TW prevent the use of a record clamp. I own a Harmonix Clamp and a few outer rings. I just hate outer rings as they are a pain to use. I almost never use the outer ring (which I love) for that reason. Especially if you want to use a 9 inch tonearm or a triplanar.
I listened to the Raven AC a lot of times, well, it is black and heavy.
I listened to the Raven AC a lot more times (I have one) and it is colourful and light. IMHO of course?
The fact that a product is "flavour of the month" as TW is, does not, of itself mean it is overhyped rubbish. The One in particular, I think is exceptionally good value. It is an intrinsically simple design, but beautifully engineered and built to very tight tolerances.
As to the question of whether a turntable can make much difference to the sound. All a table needs to do is turn at a stable speed, provide good support to the vinyl and exclude sources of vibration getting in and drain out vibration from the cartridge. It sounds easy, but it seems pretty hard to do. Having gone through 5 tables over the years, all I can say is, changing to the Raven One has made as much difference in sound reproduction as any other step I have taken over the years.
May I ask, are the Raven sold via regular Dealers or direct from the US Importer?
You have a long way to go to convince me that I made a poor decision on buying a Raven.

When I bought my Raven One I wasn't influenced by any magazine review because there wasn't any, at lease here in North America.
And here on Audiogon, at the time, there were a handful of favorable mentions of the Raven tables, with this I added TW Acustics to my short list of tables.

You say, A good VPI or Sota will knock the socks off the overpriced , underdesigned but oh so pretty Raven.....

Overpriced and under designed !?, what compared to VPIs Superscoutmaster Reference complete with MDF plinth and very poor rubber belt drive system....

This is your second attempt at bashing TW Acustics though this time around you have included owners.

Your simply bias towards TW Acustic and if you actually heard one no matter what it did well you would never admit to it.

Just what is it your going on about, are you trying to save us from something?

Do you see yourself as the Ralph Nader of this hobby?

Sirspeedy, it's a hobby, calm down.
Sirspeedy has an issue of other sorts. He has sold off his system due to having a problems that have nothing to do with TW.

Sirspeedy why don't you just come out and state your true complaints. It isn't fair to everyone here for you to bash a product based on your personal grudge. I am sorry but it is far too obvious.
The Raven one is not overpriced, the AC and blacknight are, overpriced sort of. In my opinion all audio gear is overpriced after say $5k per component and maybe $10k for speakers. Sure audio can and does improve when you go up in the price range but the improvements are very little when compared to the price.

I think a well matched $20k system can do better in a dedicated and treated listening room then a $100K system in a modern living room.

Just paying a lot of money doesn't garentee a great system.

Sirspeedy,bashing is OK, IMO. For instance, I just had a well hyped cartridge in my own system, it was the ONLY new variable, it made my whole system suffer. Am I now to assume my whole system sucks, or did just the new cart? My opinion on this cartridge is pretty "controlled". Is your opinion on the TW a "controlled" opinion?

Bashing a product is fine, as is calling into question value, IMO. However, I would like proper context. For instance I heard the TW with this cart and this arm, played through these electronics and these speakers, all of which I am very familiar with. Or better yet, I had the TW in my own system for audition, and BTW I had on hand both the SOTA and the VPI, and I switched cart from table to table. Thus, I got a pretty good feel for the character of the table.

However, unless I missed it you have not provided specific information. Again feel free to bash but please do provide more information when doing so. Without such information opinions are of ZERO value.

People can get so passionate about this hobby. There are no absolutes and many paths to a satisfying system. There is no best. I find there are many more good products than bad which
is a good thing for all of us.
Dlanselm I like your stance on conrolled opinion, I think that is a way of judging components that doesnt get enough weight in the equation. May I ask how many hours you had on that cart before you concluded it didnt sound good and with what arm combinations you used it?
I can add that I'm a very happy owner of a Raven One. I upgraded from a fully decked out VPI Scoutmaster and no change in my system, short of changing speakes, was as dramatic and positive.

Mind you, I also switched from the VPI JMW9 Signature arm to a Triplanar at the same time, so I can't truly say how much the table was responsible vs the arm, but together the difference was astounding.
Perrew, your questions are very relevant, though perhaps better served in another tread. I know your considering the cart in question, please feel free to contact me, via email or better yet a phone call. Your underlying premise is correct though, I can only determine the cart did not sound good on my arm, and table. Though, in my personal vinyl hierarchy, the spinner is a DISTANT third after cart being one and arm being second. Regrading cart break in, NO component or cart has every "broke in" enough, if my first impression was not VERY favorable. IMO carts do tend to get more spacious sounding after some hours, however, I feel the tonal character remains fairly constant, though the VTF and VTA settings change throughout its life, to accomplish this.

OK,I understand how you guys can feel....Yet,my experiences in the hobby really have nothing to do with any of my own personal opinions here.To insult me by claiming you know my agenda is absurd.

I think I gave enough design emphasis to my other choices.Do some home work yourself to determine if the other designs are better.

I'll happily stick to my statements,made previously!Attempting to figure out if I had a hidden agenda is total baloney!

A design will either stand up to what is out there or not.If there are better,lower cost designs that I feel are better,I'm certainly allowed to mention them.

There are some folks who like getting a better mouse trap for less cash.

The objective was "solely" to give exposure to better,lower cost designs!....They happen to exist btw!

And why does it have to come off as "bashing",just because my emphasis is on better designs,for less money?I never said the Raven was crap.I believe I said it sounded good!

Btw,I've been around the block with "many" competitive products too...Hands ON!I've most likely owned as many as you have as well.That should give me the ability to make a judgement here.I don't claim to be an expert,but a person with a little knowledge of some things.If I can point some folks in a direction and save them some money,what so bad?

If you own a Raven,be thrilled.Good for you!

You have to understand that anyone is entitled to their own opinion,and psychoanalysis of an agenda(like DGAD's of me) is just a copout ,IMO....You can put whatever spin on it that makes you happy,but there is some mightily good designs around for alot less dosh!

At the very least,it gives me the right to express my own thoughts,and if you are happy with whatever you own that is great as far as I'm concerned.Do you honestly think I care what someone owns?Be happy with whatever you are comfortable with!

One thing for sure....don't try to analyze my agenda!You don't know me,or my experiences.

I have only respect for the body of Audiogon members,but I know a few things which allow me to express my personal opinion...for whatever reason!

The bottom line is(and I did mention this)just look at the white papers offered by other competitive mfgrs(Basis has some great ones)....

Make a decision based on common sense and what seems to be the most plausible design....That was actually my point,originally.....Yet ruffling feathers on this forum is not uncommon....I'll walk on egg shells in the future.

Sirspeedy, thanks for the response. Would you be willing to share SPECIFIC details about your recent comparisons amongst these products you speak about that helped you come to these value and design opinions? Thanks in advance.
Dlanselm, I agree and will contact you directly regarding the cart.
I think its interesting that you consider spinner distant third. I have read your blog and followed your evolvement from Brinkmann and on to now Raven, I think it gives credibility to your choice I also know Dgad bought his Raven very long before it got the "flavour of the month" sticker that some seems to give it.
Dlanselm,sorry but I've learned my lesson!I'm done on the subject.

It's kinda like I called someone's kid ugly.No intention to purposely ridicule anyone's choices.Only to mention my thoughts on better/less costly designs,as how they might relate to this product.....IMO.

I mean,the original thread "does" ask a valid question!!

It does not mitigate the fact that the Raven is a well liked and good product.Maybe just not my cup of tea.

As for any "history" I may have had previously in the hobby/industry....that is totally irrelevent to the subject.Believe me,nobody would benefit from my going "there".

Including the folks cluing some into my agenda!!!!!

I'd rather stick to the specific subject,regarding viable design,and my "opinion" on the VPi's or any other stuff.

Btw,just for the heck...The Oracle Delphi is a fabulous design,and gorgeous to behold.Not a bad choice if one is interested in saving a few bucks,with alot of bang for the cash outlay.It has been around for awhile and represents a very well thought out design....

NO,I'm not going to give a dissertation on why I believe it "is" so,and offer comparisons.Check it out!

Whether I am in,or out of the hobby....

Would a retired athelete be less able to analyze his sport? After four decades of involvement.Hmm?

Could you describe the differences you hear between your old VPI rig and your new Raven One/TriPlanar? I assume you are using the same Dynavector XV-1S. Thanks.
Sirspeedy --I am puzzled by your refusal to mention anything about comparisons you have made between the turntables you like and the TW design which you dont.I have no agenda and have appreciated your thoughts on other threads.I would think you would supply an answer to the question posed without hesitation.I have a suspended Kuzma Reference and am thinking of getting a TW designed Table therefore I looked forward to your comments.
Im sure you understand that your silence may make one wonder.
Sirspeedy, yes the Oracle Delphi IS an excellent table but after repeated listening I found it a little light in the bottom end for my tastes.

The Oracle was one of the tables I gave seriuos consideration to over a year ago also it's a hell of a lot better looking then many on the market including the Ravens.

BTW they also make a killer phono stage, it really is superb.
Really,this is getting a good bit out of control!Why I am asked to mention comparisons sort of misses my point about other viable options.I've not A/B'd virtually any product over the years,other than power cords or cables.

I "have" heard the exact same program material on numerous occassions,on many products/tables.Enough to offer up my own "opinion" on the matter.That is about it!

No ill will,to any posters here.This is an opinionated forum.NO?

Best to all........"almost".

Now I've got to watch the season's last episode of "24"!I've got some "opinions" as to how that might end,but better not go "there".Besides that question has not been raised here,so why start trouble?