The point of my question was to try and get a feel for whether the relative merits of the "Super" vs. the "Classic" would be clearcut enough to prompt someone (like myself,who owns a "Super" on a Super scoutmaster) to unequivocally prefer one to the other.I'm sure the answer - like many in Audio - is a resounding "it depends" but I was hoping to prompt some meaningful dialogue. |
Mred, Could I believe something like that, that the Super Platter was Harry's best commercially available Platter in the history of VPI? I'll say yes, it probably was, followed by the TNT, and MK-IV Lead Filled Black Acrylic Platters. Even Mr. Salvatore seemed to believe this. (Gosh, hope I didn't say a dirty word here!?)
Which is better, the Classic Platter, or Super Platter/TNT-MK-IV Platter? That might be to a point a matter of personal taste, and too, which Table they are placed upon?
There may have been better Platters that Harry made over the years, possible dozens of prototypes that never made it to market? Only Harry W. can say for sure?
I believe too, there was a balance of not only quality of materials available, but as well what they would cost to procure, and fabricate. Harry could've perhaps designed-made a "Super Duper" Platter, superceeding all others, but at what cost to him, and/or the customer?
Note how many of VPI's better Platters seem to be a hodge podge of different, dissimilar materials combined together? Mark |
Well I think the point is kinda moot...HW had been complaining for a long time about the problems with machining the methacrylate platters--and that they can only be done at certain times of the year because of the material's sensitivity to temperature and humidity. No such problems with the new platter.
What's interesting though is that the first VPI tables released now some what 20 years ago (?) used an Al platter? HP panned the early VPI tables with metal platters(and Linn owners will remember what the platter sounded like without the mat); now HW has come back to the metal platters again and must have solved the issues of the early tables!
Myles |
At one point (~1 year ago) the quote I often saw (not sure if this was on VPI's site or one of the retailers) was that the "Super platter" was the ....and I paraphrase as I don't recall for certain....."best and most advanced VPI platter to date". Any one remember this and does it still hold true? |
It was an earlier version--before the superplatter was around. I think it was the solid metacrylate platter. |
Myles,
Was it the actual"Super platter" or one of the earlier incarnations of black platters? |
I compared several years ago the then "new" lighter, clear acrylic platter to the "then" all black acrylic platter. My take as memory serves me, is that that the black acrylic had better bass extension but was softer through the top end. The clear platter otoh, wasn't as extended in the lows as the black platter but had more perceived extension at the top, possibly because of the loss of bass.
Myles |
Alun's observation makes sense, TNT is known to sound warm and classic platter might be the ticket to compensate its short coming.
it's often best to combine several different materials to achieve a balance sound, maybe that's why Scout was so successful because it combined acrylic with wood. on the other hand, Clearaudio is now moving away from all acrylic because it sounded dead. |
I just upgraded my TNT to the classic platter over the acrylic and really like the sound personally. I'm going to listen for a bit then switch back, but what I've found so far is a slightly livelier sound as opposed to the acrylics somewhat "thicker" and "darker" sound. I guess it's a matter of taste. Keep in mind though that the acrylic I'm referring to is the clear or "whiteish" colored not the superplatter.
I believe VPI is happy with the machining properties of aluminium but thats kind of a given really. If you've worked with lathes for as long as they have they'd should have know this a long time ago. I think the quality of acrylic has probably gone down while the price gone up therefore not as reasonable to make TT's out of. This will affect a manuf. point of view as well.
As a last note the super platter looks better and the aluminium leave fingerprints in the worst way IMO |
From the VPI web site, the Classic is:
New 6061 machined aluminum 18 pound high inertia platter with precision inverted bearing and stainless steel damping plate. |
As I understand it, the machined Classic Platter weighs 18 lbs, and 20 lbs with Bearing included.
The Super Platter, that was made to fit all VPI Tables other than the HR-X, was 25 lbs. The HR-X Super Platter was 30 lbs.
And I made a small error earlier, the Galibier Stelvio Platter is actually listed at 44 lbs. Mark |
Does anyone know the weight of the aluminum platter? I had searched out and purchased an aries 1 with original heavy platter which I think is 20 lbs (and I may be wrong but I think the super platter is 25 lbs? or is it 30) |
Iwould think just for weight, and mass alone, the Super Platter probably had no peer.
For any who would want a true "super platter", maybe give Thom Mackris a ring. I'm sure he'll put you into a Galibier Stelvio Platter, and Bearing. A whopping 42 lbs should do the trick! A massive .800" Bearing Shaft, and I'm sure a simple trip to a local machinist to drill out your Plinth, and your ready to go.
Not sure of the "depth" of the Galibier Bearing Well, one might need some taller Cone Feet? lol Mark |
WOW! HW's rationale is impeccable. Makes you wonder why more turntable manufacturers aren't using aluminum platters......or does it?
Cheers,
John |
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I forgot to add that this was VPI's reason for the aluminum over the acrylic of the standard Scout from a review.
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Weisfeld's rationale: "You can machine aluminum much better (+/- .001" in a 29" circumference), it can be damped easily, it is heavy (good), it is temperature and humidity stable, and it adds a sense of life that the acrylic doesn't have without the artificial brightness that acrylic can sometimes bring to the sound."
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http://www.vpiindustries.com/reviews/Classic%20-%20vpi_classic_reprint.pdf |
Wow, big bummer! My new Classic TT was just delivered today and now it's gonna suck! I am going to be looking for a super platter equivalent now before I even opened it. Sounds like I should go ahead and sell it sealed and look for a Super Scoutmaster after reading this. |
I have heard the platter compared with a super platter on an Aries 1 table in the same system as a VPI classic table with aluminum platter. It was no comparison. The Aries 1 and super platter really was much better in air, noisefloor and bass solidity. Cart used on both was a Dynavector XX-2.
We were all led to believe from our results that the aluminum platter was to blame. I just think it is more resonant and prone to vibrations. Not sure why VPI is touting this as a superior platter. Just don't get it. The super platter you have is far better IMHO. I have an Aries 3 table with the acrylic platter and waited too long to purchase a super platter. They are now no longer produced and all the usual suspects have sold out (Music Direct, Acoustic Sounds, Elusive Disc, etc).
If you do switch to the aluminum platter, I know someone who would buy your super platter! ; ) |
