Here's an update, and a new issue.
Two cartridges I've used of late - Benz Gullwing and Dynavector 17D3 - reveal another source of hum.
This time, the hum begins when the stylus touches the playing surface, during the lead-in to the tracks, and I can also hear it a bit during quiet passages.
Someone told me it's because VPI motors are noisy.
VPI tells me it's because my low-output cartridge requires a lot of amplification, and is picking up some 50Hz hum from other piece of equipment in my system.
Anyone have any ideas?
I'm close to moving on to another t/t if I can't resolve this issue.
Oh, but the Classic/17D3 combi is awesome. Just that pesky hum bothers me ... |
Bifwynne
To clarify, there are two different hum issues.
- The earlier one, I attributed to interconnect not being placed properly, ie, too close to amp or power cord. This is no longer an issue, as I've learnt how run the connects so they don't pick up noise.
- The newer hum issue is only when I place cartridge on record surface.
I started off with the Clearaudio Concerto, it had some issue later (it was about 3 years old), then moved to the Benz Ace ... later, in quest of something better, I upgraded to the Benz Gullwing. That's when I started hearing the hum from the record surface, which has continued with the Dynavector.
My distributor is dropping by this weekend to see what I'm not doing right, grounding, etc .... will update.
I wonder if the Classic needs to work with a high output cartridge? |
Tks, Macdadtexas, do you have any recommendations for such cartridges? I would have thought the ones I used would be well shielded? Is there anything I can do to the cartridges I have now to ensure they're well shielded? |
Actusreus - Thanks for your suggestion. I've been running with vinyl for 25 years, I know what it can and can't do. Record surface noise can't be helped, noise from cables can be eliminated via proper placement. The cartridge picking up noise from the motor is not a non-issue for me; I've run other turntables with low output cartridges and this never happened.
VPI themselves suggested a high-output MC to counter this.
Anyway, I installed a Clearaudio Maestro MM cartridge last night, 3.6mV output and this seems to have taken the hum down to a level where I can totally ignore it.
The only reason I haven't sold the Classic is because it's one of the most addictive TTs I've owned, despite a flaw or two - it has the slam and bass few others at the price have. That's why I've stuck with it to arrive at the right combination.
Anyone have experience with a Classic/high-output Grado? |
Actusreus - the hum I'm getting in the lead-in grooves, I heard no such thing in previous set-ups I had, including a Clearaudio and NAS, with a variety of cartridges.
Bifwynne - I will update my posts as I find out more. |
I was told a separate ground wire is required for Grado cartridges not to hum, I've used a wood-bodied Grado with an Amari TT mounted with Rega RB250 arm, but with separate ground wire (unlike Rega TTs), and no hum heard.
My Classic has a steel arm-tube, btw ...
Damn, it shouldn't be so difficult to get it all right with the Classic. My previous Clearaudio Performance was much more well-behaved! Yet, there's something about Mary, er, I mean, the Classic ... |
Bifwynne - I have a Classic 1, it's about a year old; upgrading the armtube to steel was an option I paid extra for. There's no compatibility issue with the Maestro that I can make out so far, but that hum is still there! As Macdadtexas said, it's the design quirk ... odd that I initially never noticed it a year ago ... getting a Soundsmith is going to be another expensive trial.
Need to reassess things the next few months ... |
Bifwynne - Thanks much for your input and suggestions. Give me 2-3 days to detail my history with the Classic since I got it last year. And also to try out some of your suggestions and my own procedures.
My Classic with steel tonearm tube sounds great with the Maestro.
Man, with the Clearadio and Rega I've owned, I never had to take this much trouble!
cheers
|
Hi, Bifwynne ... as of now, I'm still getting that hum, although, again, in the lead-in and quiet parts.
My dealer says none of his customers who have got the Classic report any such issue. Anyway, he's offered the Aries 3 to me for the weekend, and I'll be taking it home to hear how it behaves in my place. He's also got a new batch of Classics coming in soon, says I can try one if I want to.
Let's see how it goes with the Aries first, so I'll know if it's an issue specific to my Classic or overall set-up.
I've so far not encountered any tonearm resonance with the Maestro. |
Curiouser and curiouser ...
Some quick facts:
1 - The Classic and Aries 3 tonearm don't seem to be interchangeable.
2 - The Classic arm, with counterweight attached, and steel arm tube, is lighter than the Aries 3 tonearm, which is all aluminium, also with weight attached.
3 - The Classic counterweight appears to be heavier.
Seems to be some significant differences between both the 10.5 tonearms.
Oh, I say this because the Maestro with headshell weight is too light for the Aries, but just right with the Classic's arm.
I'm now trying to get a heavier cartridge. Or a lighter counterweight ...
So much fun ... unlike the Regas, just fit and play ... (sarcasm intended) ...
more later ... |
Macdad - Soundsmith not available where I live, so I have to order online ... too much of a risk to take if i don't like it ... where i live, at least the dealers let me try demo units of the cartridges i've mentioned.
Bifwynne - That hum is still there whatever I try. Tmrw, the dealer is coming over to my place to have a listen and see what he can figure out. The darndest this is the Maestro and Classic seem to love each other otherwise!
On the other hand, I could have the option of an Aries 3 ... :)
let's see. |
Just to recap:
This hum I get when stylus eases into groove, I've experienced from these cartridges:
Benz Gullwing (MC, 0.6mV output)
Dynavector Karat (MC, 0.3mV)
Sumiko Blue Point (MC, 2.5mV)
Clearaudio Maestro (MM, 3.6mV)
Earlier, I used these, and either didn't notice any hum that could have been present, or there was no hum to be heard. Hard to say as I can't retrance my steps to this point:
Clearaudio Concerto
Benz Ace H
I tend to lean towards Mcdadtexas' assessment that it's the motor built on the plinth.
Thinking further back, I did notice this issue with a cheap Project Expression II tt package I tried out for a bit last year, which had an Ortofon MM cartridge. That one had a motor suspended on the chassis. Prior to that, I had set up various Project systems at my place - the RM5, 6 and 9 lines - all with outboard motors, and don't recall this issue.
I've never heard aforesaid hum from any of the Rega tts I've had - 3, 5 and 7 - although they all had motors on the plinth.
With my previous Clearaudio Performance, no issue - it used, first a Maestro, then a Concerto. Outboard motor.
Also, finally, I had a NAS Interspace last year, with its own unipivot arm. Benz Ace H and Grado (green) cartridges were used at different times, no hum. Motor on plinth.
I'm curious to hear how the Aries 3, with its outboard motor, fares when we set it up this evening.
Seems a bit of a waste if you can use a tt with a just very limited range of cartridges. |
Ha ha, at least you found a solution ... if the Aries 3 with the Maestro is hum-free and the results tug at my heartstrings, I'm leaning towards trading in my Classic. But let's see in a few hours .... :) |
My next thread will be called 'VPI Aries 3 no hum at all'... |
I got the dealer to come over to my place to listen, so he could hear what I was talking about. He agreed there was a hum each time the cartridge hit the groove and started playing. He tried a few tests, including what Bifwynne earlier suggested. Says he never heard on the issue from other Classic customers.
We then transferred the Maestro over to the Aries 3, and immediately, on the first LP itself, we could tell. No hum. Just the music and usual heavenly pops and clicks.
He offered to take back the Classic, I just need to top up for the Aries 3, which is rarely utilised demo unit with the protective paper sticker still attached to the plinth. Discounted from his usual retail, of course.
Sorry to see the Classic go ... now to work towards turbo-ing the Aries 3 along the way. Audiophiles ... sigh ... |
And thanks for all the suggestions and feedback, folks ... |
The Aries 3 is running beautifully. Itchy fingers - wondering how it would sound with the Classic's metal platter. Mike of VPI said no prob using it with the Aries 3, so I did a switch.
Wondering if it's my imagination that the metal platter gave the sound more weight and control ...
Damn, this road doesn't end, does it?!
Cheers! |
So I've traded in the Classic for the Aries 3. Sad to see the Classic go, but I think I'm going to have fun upgrading parts of the Aries 3 in the years (months?). Platter, feet, maybe rim drive ... |
Wow, almost 18 months since I started this thread and it's still going on.
I've read the replies since my last post. It appears the motor mounting is the culprit. I'm sure VPI would have rectified this issue on all the Classics since then.
Macster - You'll be glad to know I've stuck with the Aries 3. One change, though, I ordered a Classic all-metal platter for it. This takes the Aries 3's bass to Classic level.
An A-B I did last year before giving up the Classic (and using the same Clearaudio Maestro cartridge) showed the Aries 3 to have more air and detail, and a bigger stage. The Classic had deeper and weightier bass. I switched platters (just a case of drop-in) and then the Aries 3's bottom end clicked nicely into place, the way I like.
Funny thing is, I then ordered a Classic platter from VPI, and when the unit came, it wouldn't fit on the Aries' spindle! Anyway, they did send a whole set - spindle and mount, so I remove the ones on the Aries and fixed the whole platter set.
So far, I'm pretty chuffed with the Aries 3 - I have a Dynavector XX2 MkII on it.
Would be interested to know how far sonically the Classic 3 is from the original model. I spied a new Classic 1 at my dealers, with the new finish plinth, and was tempted to give it another shot... what's it about that bloody Classic, then, ay? Must be all that wood that's calling me!
Just thought you folks might want to know where I've reached in my VPI adventures.
Cheers! |
Bifwynne: Mine didn't, too, at first. I think not every unit was plagued by this issue. If yours is working fine, I envy you, I still love the Classic's looks and sound. |
Gvandyke2: You're lucky, then, that the hum was traced to the interconnects. I tried a number of shielded interconnects before tracing the actual cause of the hum in my (former) Classic ... |
Macster: Haha, so it seems, like the hum on my Classic!
I did a whole lock-stock-and-barrel change. The provided arms with each deck don't seem to be drop-in exchangeable units, unless, I suppose, one removes the arm base/mount as well. I ordered the metal platter later. Yes, the Aries 3 has a phono junction box.
There were some issues setting up the arm initially because I wanted to use the Dynavector D17MkIII cartridge, but it was just too light even with headshell weight! Anyway, to cut a long story short, I ended up with four different counterweights from VPI, and eventually still traded up to a heavier cartridge, the XX2 MkII ...
I'm not that much of an expert at setting up, I've got it down to a point where there seems to be no glaring discrepancies in the results... one day, when it's raining hard, I supposed I will get down to further fine tuning it ... |
The Aries 3 has its motor separated from the plinth, so the Classic's earlier issues won't apply. I'm enjoying my Aries 3 with Classic platter and Dynavector XX2 MkII cartridge. Hoping to get a newer Classic some day.
Hope you're enjoying your system.
Meanwhile, let's hope this 31-month-old thread will finally stop cropping up! |
It happened! I just got myself a new Classic 1 yesterday... again! It's the latest version, of course. I can't really explain what got into me! Yet to unbox it. Waiting for a cartridge. If the same issue crops up, I'm writing to Harry and Mat.... But I really hope not....Because, you know, you only live once...
Yeah, I know, that last part didn't make much sense to me, too... But what the heck! |
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Bifwynne... I've yet to set up and play the new Classic 1. My old Classic 1 had a problem. It's all explained in one of my posts following the original post. It was the TT itself. So I traded in that Classic for an Aries 3, which has been hum-free so far.
But I've still been lusting after a Classic. An opportunity emerged last week to get another one...the new version with the raised plinth... And I'm hoping it will be hum-free... |
Macster - No, it won't! Lol...
Lp2Cd - Interesting you should bring up the issue of balanced AC power. In fact, that's how I've been running my system for years. I've got a dedicated 32amp spur running from the mains to my room and the balanced transformer is plugged into this, from which my system is powered. So far, so good, no noise ... except from my first VPI Classic which appeared to be feeding motor hum into the cartridge via the LP surface. And I never lift grounds. |
Brf - Yes, I'm think replacement of the motor in the new version of the Classic 1 will counter that issue.
Stringreen - How much does that new counterweight cost? |
