Vivid Audio Speakers

I've heard the big Giya speakers at shows, listened to the Oval speakers at a dealer, and listened several times to the Kaya at a friend's place.

They are indeed "vivid."  Super transparent, detailed and sky high airy high end.   Everything sounds "right there."

However, to my ears, I found it more of a "hi-fi" vs "natural" sound.For instance, even well recorded voices tended to sound unnaturally vivid/brightened/sibilant/electronic.   I remember in particular a Joni Mitchel track, and the Kaya produced a super clear sonic image of her voice, except it just didn't actually sound very human.   More like a super vivid electronic hologram.

The same track at home (on my Thiel 2.7 speakers/conrad johnson tube amps) sounded significantly more fleshed out, relaxed and more like a real human voice.

Yup. Vivid’s use of aluminum drivers made
their sound to monotonic in nature. Drums
Of different kinds for example sounds the same.
at the end of the day, i miss the colour that
paper cone brings to the table.

The unnatural voices of the Kaya prof mentions above (I have never heard vivid) probably has a lot more to do with the low side firing woofers with a high crossover point combined with the subtle rise in frequency response starting at 2k, just a guess. Probably makes for an odd acoustic center and makes that rise at 2-3k more noticeable. 

 The small bass drivers of the Kaya always seemed like a questionable design for such expensive speakers. I am a fan of displacement but always admired Vivid from a distance. The larger Giya models are way out of my price range. The engineering in them seems outstanding though. 
https://www.stereophile.com/content/vivid-kaya-45-loudspeaker-measurements

I don't mean they can't sound fantastic.

I remember being attracted in to a room at an AV show due to the amazingly "live" sound of a horn-based band track playing in the room...to find the vivid speakers playing.

I've also heard tracks like Genesis' Squonk sound astounding on the big Giyas - killer bass impact,  sonic detail, and imaging for miles.  I get why people like them, and they can no doubt sound convincing on the right material, or in the right set up.

I will preface this by saying I am a Vivid dealer who also sells Wilson Benesch and I make my own speakers from fiberglass and carbon fiber sandwich panels.

Because of the cabinet design materials and design, they are incredibly revealing.  It makes a huge difference.  That being said, amp matching really matters.  
The Kayas vs Giyas (Oval Decades are sold out) are different.  The Kayas are a bit warmer and less revealing than the Giyas.  Yes, I did a side by side of them.

They don’t need to be bright or metallic sounding.  You just need to use the right amp.  I have a customer running MSB amplification and it is jaw droppingly good.  AVM Ovation 6.3/8.3 amps are brilliant.  
It’s a combination of power and neutral/warm sound to be at the very best.  
I listen to a pair of Kaya 45s frequently.  Placement is incredibly easy and the only way I will get rid of them is to get a pair of G4’s.  I am driving them with an AVM A5.2 and they are awesome and natural.

They are not going to give you the sweetness and coloration of a paper cone.  If you really want that, then you should probably look at Kaiser.  Though they are very hard to place.  
Incidentally, since I design my own speakers using similar tech, I have a pretty good understanding how/why it works and am a big believer in it.

Have to side with prof and his impressions. I have immensely enjoyed listening to that 'extra' clarity of Vivid loudspeakers at RMAF over many years. And after the auditioning I have always been sure they'd be fatiguing over the long haul unless the amp was warm to warm+. 

Just my ears. Still a nice speaker and perhaps someone's ideal sound.

Been playing around with the Vivid Kaya 45s in our listening room recently.  Amplifier matching is critical but once you do, amazing.  If anyone heard them and says that they are not musical, please come to hear them in our room.  We could not stop listening to them this past weekend, 6 hours straight.  It took us a little bit to figure the set-up right but we are pretty amazed on the sound right now.  

 

 

Any experience with the Oval series?

@verdantaudio- how do the Vivids compare with the Wilson Benesch?

The WB also have well engineered cabinets. Any comments are appreciated...

Thanks!

Giya's are some of my all time favorite speakers. I have heard the whole line with the Spirit's being my top choice. Having stated this, I am always amazed at the SQ that Vivid gets from a) the choice of driver and b) the quality of the internal workings. It really says a lot that these speakers sound as great as they do given a and b! One thing I would suggest, IF you own Vivid's, never open them up to look at the construction..just enjoy their amazing sound.

Vivid and WB are different.  Borg are amazing but distinctly different sound profiles tonally.  Vivid drifts a bit brighter than WB.  It is usually a tougher load to drive in terms of impedance and the bass is stunningly good, as good as most other speakers in it’s class (Magico, Wilson, etc…) but is not quite as tight and refined as WB.  They use driver in opposition with multiple ports and this is clean and very clear.    It is obviously a transmission line design made from fiberglass and Kaya & Giya use different cores.  The drivers are selected and all made from the same material to ensure tonal integration.  They have a relatively complex crossover.  Additionally, criticism of Vivids internals is sort of like saying “you will love that Tesla, just don’t look under the hood at the engine”. The materials they are using don’t work like MDF and can’t be compared to a wood box.  
 

WB is more neutral tonally.  They are hybrid cabinets made of metal and carbon fiber.  The drivers are all carbon fiber or carbon fiber hybrid.  WB uses an isobaric bass system which is incredibly refined.  Some people do not like this because it does not kick you in the chest the way other speakers do but frequency response on my Discover IIIzs was jaw dropping at AXPONA and most people were asking where the subwoofer was. Crossover is insanely simple and WB is a very easy load, typically above 4 ohms.  
 

Technologically, this is the bleeding edge IMO.  WB received huge grants from UK government which helps.  Laurence Dickie is a genius keeping Vivid competitive.
 

they both sound massive in terms of soundstage with incredible levels of detail.  Placement is easier than expected with both.    I like both companies equally in terms of outcome.  System matching and aesthetics are what drive choice to me.  
 

If your preference is warmer SS amplification, (Bricasti, Pass, etc…), Vivid will be perfect.  If you like tubes or less warm SS (I ran Discovery IIIs at AXPONA with 55w triode amps), WB is a better choice.  

@verdantaudio  Your analogy to Tesla in regards to not looking under the hood is a poor one, IMHO. The Vivid speakers are anything but high tech if you look inside the cabinets! For those who want to know what the construction and parts are, feel free to PM me. Having said this, like I stated before, they sound excellent. No one needs to apologize for their SQ. 

@daveyf You are certainly welcome to disagree.  You are stating that they are low tech because you looked inside and I assume did not see the bracing you expect when looking at an expensive speaker made from wood.  And, when you remove the crossover and/or drivers, they are quite lightweight relatively speaking.  

The materials Vivid makes their cabinets out of don't behave like other common materials (MDF, Baltic Birch, etc...)  that are used in speaker production.  The combination of the shape and the materials (fiberglass composites) make them behave very differently.  They are largely hollow though the Nautilus portion of the top of the Giya does have bracing.  

The materials they use are commonly used in the transportation broadly but aerospace industry especially due to the extraordinary strength to weight ratio that they deliver.  That, combined with the circular shape leads to exceptional strength and rigidity.  They also state that they heavy up on the composite in certain parts of the speaker where added strength is required.  These are low mass designs which is very different than almost all manufacturers in the marketplace.  

Let's also remember that these are transmission line designs to clear airflow is essential.  

I use very similar materials in the production of my Nightshade speaker which is fiberglass over a DuPont Nomex core.  My other speaker carbon fiber over a Nomex core which is similar to the panels used in the Wilson Benesch.  Mine are prefabricated and flat, thus my cabinets are rectangular.  This keeps costs down as it allows me to avoid expensive molds that Vivid and WB utilize.  It also means my performance is not quite as exceptional.  

Due to the high cost and difficulty of working with the materials, I use an aerospace company to make my cabinets whose primary business is the interior of private planes and helicopters.  

My opinion is that using these more advanced composites that are allowing for them to deviate from traditional designs is pretty high tech relatively speaking.  As I said, feel free to disagree, but IMO, this is one of the truly unique and tech forward designs in the marketplace.  

@verdantaudio-thanks for the summary. Much appreciated!

On another recent thread about Vivid speakers, there were some eye opening complaints from at least one owner about the drivers burning out without  being overdriven, and serious lack of customer support by Vivid.

Their speakers are out of my price bracket, but after what I read there, I wouldn’t even consider them.

I haven't seen this thread with the other customer having an issue and can't speak about the process followed.  Normally, your first line of engagement with any issue should be your dealer.  If you contacted your dealer and received poor support, well...it is Vivids fault I suppose for working with a poor dealer.  

As a Vivid dealer, I will say that they were incredibly responsive.  I had a customer who called me to tell me that they "blew a driver" in their Oval B1 Decades because there was a distinct rattle.  

Laurence Dickey directly offered me advice on how to evaluate the speaker on site and to see how we could get this resolved.  As it turns out, the driver was fine.  There was a panel a few feet away that was vibrating and the reflection of the sound made it seem like it was coming from the back of the Vivids.  

If you have purchased them used, you would need to go straight to Vivid.  But, even then, I directly supported a repair on a used pair of speakers handling the financial transaction which was brought to me by my rep.  

The only thing I see as an issue with these speakers is that the drivers are incredibly delicate and are easy to damage during setup or re-packing.  I have not had an actual issue with speaker I have sold.