Actually, I view all audio from a ratings point of view; what I'm speaking of is some kind of metric to judge the quality of components.
I spent two years visiting high end emporiums, and auditioning components, comparing them to how they were rated in "Stereophile"; meaning "A"; "B"; or "C". I read how a component was rated in the magazine, then went to the Emporium and asked to audition that component. Just as there are many flavors of ice cream, there are many flavors of sound; for example Conrad Johnson, and ARC are at opposite ends of the spectrum from warm to cool, but both have models that are rated Class "A".
Every building has a foundation that it sits on; that rating system is "Stereophile's" foundation, they don't play games with it, and I found it to be quite valid. There are many different flavors in each class, but I more or less agreed with "Stereophile's" ratings in regard to whether a component should be rated "A"; "B"; or "C".
I was not in analog at that time, but as I recall, no Emporium had expensive cartridges that you could evaluate, and you can reason why they didn't.
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Yes Schubert, your choice of components matter a lot in regard to your chosen music genre. That's most important in regard to choice of cartridge; which is why I pay little attention to cartridge recommendations around here. When they say best cartridge, they mean the best cartridge for Rock, and not jazz, where you listen to soft spoken female vocalists more than banging guitars and loud drums, plus that, jazz guitar is so different from rock guitar.
What's best for one genre, is not necessarily best for another.
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Prof, that reminds me of my first watch, it was Christmas and a "Micky Mouse" watch was one of my presents; it had a picture of Mickey on the face, and his arms and hands were the hands of the watch. I had to know what time it was every 15 minutes, that was the prettiest watch I had ever seen; I liked it better than I would have liked a Rolex.
I'm sure your daughters turntable sounds as good as any audiophile table to her young ears, and it delivers more than is required.
Happy listening.
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"organic, spacious, with wonderful texture and presence and warmth."
Prof, you seem to claim that you can get those things from vinyl without high-end hardware. While all I hear is a flat pasty sound; the same one the multitudes rejected, and they also rejected the high-end gear necessary to get the sound you claim to hear without it.
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BTW, I can relate to everything everyone says about vinyl except one thing; when that needle falls in the groove, if I don't hear sweet music, the thing can go in the trash as far as I'm concerned. Sweet music means better than CD.
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Although my 35 year old son has been around records since he was born, he doesn't have a record, or CD player, and uses wireless headphones to listen to his music that comes from a source I know not where.
Now if I'm not making an effort to influence my own son, I'm certainly not going to make an effort to influence anyone else; however, I do believe I'm expressing more than an opinion in regard to cheap turntables, as being a waste of money for an aspiring audiophile.
"The vinyl experience"; without high end, it's not as good as CD; the multitudes will verify that. Unfortunately, the "Newbees" can't go to the library and spin a record or two, and then say "I tried it but I didn't like it"; they have to spend money, and I want to give them another point of view before they spend it.
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Prof, it ain't that subjective; something that's rated Class A by Stereophile and TAS will sound better than something rated Class C. The only thing that's subjective is the music one chooses to play on the equipment. While there is truth to subjective, it can go beyond the bounds of all truth, to the extent that it becomes a subjective lie: "Hamburger tastes better to me than Grade A porterhouse steak"
My preference is Grade A "holographic" sound whether it's delivered by digital or analog is irrelevant; that's because I can get the best out of both. I didn't spend 30 years subscribing to UK stereo magazines, plus Audio, Stereophile, Stereo Review, and everything related to the reproduction of sound for nothing.
There is nothing the multitudes who lived with vinyl records don't know about it, and they have decided to live without it. Now we got a brand new con game for new consumers who don't know, telling them how special it is, without telling them the price of that "special sound"; that's dishonest.
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You're not talking to a "Newbee"; I've been around, I was at the Dead Sea when it died, and I was at the Red Sea when they dyed it red, I can go all the way back to the Gramaphone when vinyl really sucked.
When CD came out, the multitudes had Gerrard, Dual, and BIC tables that cost about $200. or less. Cartridges were "Shure" and others that cost $150. tops; not exactly high end, and that's why CD's sounded high end; no record noise or "snap, crackle and pop".
The multitudes never went back to records; especially after they found out what all the fuss was about (very expensive high-end) I have never seen or heard people so adept at "conflating" things; such as one of those old Dual turntables sound better than CD. That's a blatant lie, and guys who had them would laugh in your face. This new propaganda is just for the "Newbees" who don't know.
"You guys got stock in turntables, or something"?
Out of the multitudes who had those old turntables, they have upgraded everything except the vinyl end; the vast majority are out of vinyl forever, and the numbers reflect that. If the multitudes were into records, record stores would be overflowing, and there would be one on every other corner (slight exaggeration), but the fact that they were busier than a bee hive every Saturday is not an exaggeration.
Any new people who are seduced into vinyl without sufficient funds, will discover for themselves that their digital is better than cheap analog, and it takes almost 3K to even equal decent digital.
What's the point if you're not going to get better than CD? Especially with all the problems that go with vinyl. The multitudes who lived with those problems have said "good riddance", and the numbers reflect that.
After having said what I just said, I thoroughly enjoy the depth and holography of analog, but it ain't cheap, and a degree from analog university helps a lot as well. Do you bother to tell the "Newbees they need to go to analog U"; of course not.
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I do not know one single solitary person who was into analog who went back. They don't even play their old records. The know, after a lifetime of records and record players, that the fuss is about "expensive" high end analog.
I'm not trying to influence people, you are. I only want them to know the truth; there is no big deal on a record without "high end analog". I want them to know "before" they spend their money, not after.
I hope there is a record player somewhere close buy they can hear and determine for themselves.
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It's almost comical that I can't believe there are those who don't know what life was like before CD; that's how old I am, and fail to realize there are people so young they don't remember those days.
"Analog", is the first joke, only we just called them record players or TT's; that's all we had, so everybody had one. When CD's came out with no noise or "snap crackle and pop", we thought they were the most fantastic things we had ever heard, and the players were not expensive.
Someone queried "What's the big deal"? "Watchu talking about"? we responded. We didn't know that they owned "High end Analog". No longer do we have record players and TT's, now we have ANALOG.
Relatively few people have gone back to ANALOG, especially once they discovered the expense involved in "High-End-Analog". That was so long ago, that we actually have people who are not old enough to remember those days, and they are trying to discover what the big fuss is about. The people making the big fuss do not want to clarify; are we talking about "record players", "Mid-fi turntables", or are we talking about "Hi-End Analog", because there is a tremendous distinction between the three.
It seems to me that they are trying to lure those with a low budget into this very expensive game, and I say "Not on my watch" . Every time I see a thread that talks about "Starter Analog", I jump on it like a dog on a burger, because I know they're going to advise some cheap stuff that's a waste of money.
"Analog" is better IF, and only IF, you can afford to buy "High-End-Analog".
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It seems you're under the illusion that there is something special about vinyl; that only happens if you're committed to putting in the money and effort to getting the best out of an analog rig.
Plug and play is a waste of money; when it comes to vinyl "Run with the big dogs or stay at home".
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