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vinyl versus digital redux

Has anyone compared the sound of vinyl with the sound of digital converted from a vinyl intermediary ?

I am referring to 'rips' of vinyl made with high end, high quality vinyl playback systems, with
conversion to high resolution digital.
I find it nearly impossible to distinguish the two results.
The digital rip of a vinyl record sounds identical...or very nearly so...to direct playback of the vinyl.

If one has 'experienced' the foregoing, one might question why digital made without the intermediary of vinyl sounds so different from vinyl.   A detective story ?

We are talking about vinyl made by ADC (analog to digital conversion) of an amplified microphone signal and re-conversion to analog for output to the record cutting lathe, or from analog tape recording of an amplified microphone signal, and then....as above...via ADCl and back to analog for output to the cutting lathe.

Of course vinyl can be and is 'cut' (pressings made from 'stamper' copies the 'master' cut in lacquer) without digital intermediary.  Such practice is apparently uncommon, and ?? identified as such by the 'label' (production)

Has anyone compared vinyl and high resolution digital (downloads) albums offered by the same 'label' of the same performance ?  Granted, digital versus vinyl difference should diminish with higher digital resolution.   Sound waves are sine waves....air waves do not 'travel' in digital bits.    A digital signal cannot be more than an approximation of a sine wave, but a closer approximation as potential digital resolution (equating to bit depth times sampling frequency) increases.

If vinyl and digital well made from vinyl intermediary sound almost identical, and If vinyl and digital not made via vinyl intermediary sound quite different, what is the source of this difference ? 

Could it reside....I'll skip the sound processing stages (including RIAA equalization)...in the electro-mechanical process imparting the signal to the vinyl groove ?

Is there analogy with speaker cone material and the need for a degree of self-damping ?
Were self-damping not to some extent desirable, would not all speaker cones, from tweeter to sub-woofer, be made of materials where stiffness to weight ratio was of sole importance ?

Thanks for any comments.
seventies
audio2design
1,351 posts
 
No, I said that properly stored tapes (we were discussing stored studio master tapes) hold up very well (they do). Properly stored means temperature and humidity controlled, though primarily humidity. If you don’t store it properly it is toast.


https://trs.jpl.nasa.gov/bitstream/handle/2014/36282/93-1817.pdf?sequence=1

https://csumc.wiscweb.wisc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/1101/2015/10/REPORT-Preservation-and-Storage...
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,566 posts
 
Atmasphere! I have two original copies of It's a Beautiful Day! I loved it so much I bought another copy worried I would play the one to death.
Finding the original Columbia of that is no easy task. It sounded great, and people played them to death. I found an original European copy that is excellent; never found the original American in decent condition. I stopped looking years ago- the European press is far better than any of the later American pressings. I usually have this LP with me when I do shows, since so many people have heard it.  I've been accused of cheating by playing LPs like this, but heck, if your software doesn't sound good neither will your stereo.
seventies OP
67 posts
 
o_holter
As time passes, I appreciate more your response.
Have you or others reading this purchased 'high definition tape transfers' as download files ?
Have any of you found a single example of such transfers (from 'classic recordings) that retains more than a 'semblance' of high frequency detail ?
Indeed, vinyl retains the high frequency and other detail 'extant' at the time of the 'pressing', at least during our lifetimes.
And those pressings were made from newly recorded high speed tape.
Meanwhile, the high resolution digital era has arrived, and it is possible to experience 'vinyl' sound as transfer from vinyl to high resolution digital...it seems that 24/192 or dsd 128 is required.
So vinyl to high resolution digital retains the 'magic' that many associate with vinyl sound.  What other than an electro-mechanical groove-cutting process underlies that 'magic' ?
With such transfer made from lp's 'cut' from high speed tape 'masters' shortly after the initial recording much of the high frequency detail is preserved.
With such transfer made from 'vintage' high speed tape recordings....going back 30-50 years...the magic cannot be retrieved.
'Meanwhile'...in this high resolution digital era...achievable bit rates have erased digital 'glare' without loss of detail.  By high resolution bit rate I mean bit depth times sampling frequency.  As that rate increases, format differences diminish.   DAD 256 verses PCM 24/192 ?  Take your pick.
Recording standard is evolving to PCM 24/352, because PCM allows editing that DSD does not.
Music recorded at that resolution has no peer in the 'history' of sonically preserving performances.   Prefer the 'magic' of vinyl ?  No problem.  Such is available.  But the 'master tape' is now a master hi res digital file, now a huge upgrade over the 'DDD' lp's touted a few decades ago.  
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,156 posts
 
@atmasphere,load up Pure Vinyl on a Mac laptop and record all your demo songs as a playlist in 24/192 AIFF. Until you can verify that very few if any can tell the difference between the two, continue to carry both systems. Once you can honestly face anyone and tell them they can't hear the difference you can ditch the analog demo gear and keep those special LPs where they belong, at home under lock and key.
Now you have another problem. Anybody buying a tube amp is going to prefer analog. So, now you have to design an output transformerless solid state amp. If Mcintosh can do one with transformers it should be a walk in the park. 
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,156 posts
 
I think that was one gummy to many. 
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