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Enjoyed the video. I've also held a used, original pressing of a Brubeck record from the '50s, and wondered about its journey. How many others owned it, what their lives were like, etc. Have what I would consider a nice vinyl rig, along with a few thousand records. But haven't spun a record in a few months. Too much of a PITA, and I prefer the convenience of streaming. Heck, I've got a decent digital rig as well, along with a few thousand CD, but burned them onto a hard drive and Roon them away, along with Qobuz and Tidal. Again, streaming is too convenient. |
@emrofsemanon a physicist and record producer/engineer of note named tom dowd, a guy way smarter than me, didn't have many good things to say about phonographic recording and playback. Anyway, Tom Dowd recorded some top artists on Atlantic Records. He passed away in 2002. |
My hat gets tipped towards the vinyl camp. That said, if a 20-30 something starting out asked me which way to go? As much as it would hurt, I’d have to say "go streaming young man", ..... "if your going to stick to that format for life". (The chasing of format game is why - in part, I’m a vinyl guy). We are Hi-Fi snobs. Meaning we aspire to the best gear we can get our hands on. We are a Coterie. If a kid starting out wants to buy a set-up that I use, and buys new, lets see. Oracle Delphi tables start at MkVI $11,690.99 - $17,099.95 Need a tonearm, Clearaudio Universal 12" Tonearm $5,999.99.Cartridge: SoundsmithAida MKII ES $1,999.95. So, 12g’s+6g’s+2gs=$20,000. Then there’s the taxes. $20G’s, to spin a few records? Are you out of your mind? (I built my Oracle up over 40 years, so it wasn’t 1 big hit). May as well stream as to get into analog. |
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perkri273-- I agree completely. Having spent a LOT of time with LP's, then CD's, and then digital streaming/downloads there is something about "process" that just feels right to me. I can tell that it is better for me. The sound is better for me as well. No one is more surprised than myself that I am back spinning vinyl well into the 21st century. I was figuring crystal music spheres by now... |
Vinyl is the second least worst music format. The very least worst, most expensive and least convenient is reel to reel. I enjoy process. The ritual of getting set up. Feels like something important is about to happen. The physicality of it all. The ontological relationship with the medium. Somethings can either be microwaved or they can be cooked in a cast iron pan. One is quite devoid of process. The other not so much. I like feeling connected to the physical world. |
John1 nails it. I've been buying music and building out my stereo system since I could ride a bike in the '70s. I migrated seamlessly from vinyl to CD's by the '90s and though I had a great turntable rig, I spent more and more money upgrading to higher and higher quality CD players (my speakers were Infinity RS1b's and later Genesis III's w/subs. By the '2000s I had put my turntable into storage and had not heard a record in at least a decade. I was definitely aware that digital sound was improving and that SACD's and hi-rez had really made huge strides in quality. Generally speaking I was happy with my by now all digital setup. By around 2012 I began to notice vinyl records showing up in my local music stores and, probably for nostalgia's sake, I bought a few releases here and there-- and I set them aside to just enjoy the covers. By 2013 I was still buying CD's but had 5 or 10 new vinyl records I'd collected along the way. My own original collection of vinyl (nearly 1000 titles) had been long ago put into (proper) storage. So later in that year my wife asked me if I ever planned on playing any of my new vinyl records. I decided I should at least setup my turntable (SOTA Star Sapphire, Souther Triquartz arm, Clearaudio Veritas MC cart) and maybe do an A-B comparison on a couple of titles I had on both CD and vinyl. Daft Punk's Random Access Memories was one of them. I picked up an inexpensive (Musical Fidelity V-LPS) Phono Stage- my McCormack preamp had no phono input-- and set everything up, got my levels matched, sat my wife down beside me and asked for brutal honestly. First, we played a CD track off the album-- it sounded fantastic. Then I switched to the same track on vinyl. Our immediate, as in it only took 5 or 10 seconds, response was jaw-dropping. All of this musical information that we had apparently been missing just came flooding in. Soundstage became bigger, more focused. Bass gained an organic kind of musical authority-- it just sounded more real, more "there". And it was not a subtle thing. It was shocking. I was back on vinyl from that minute forward. It is hard to put into words just how profoundly this experience effected me. It was like rediscovering how much better a real meal tastes compared to a fast food version of the same-- it was that obvious. So yes, I do appreciate the beauty of wooden boats. Fiberglass just won't cut it for me anymore. |
I knew someone who owned a wooden powerboat i.e. > https://www.classicwoodenboatplans.com/shop/barrelback-custom-19 He said either you get it or you don’t. Of course, fiberglass boats are infinitely more practical & convenient. All it takes is desensitizing yourself to the depth of beauty represented by the living thing, wood is when raised to such an art form. All the sheer, enveloping, penetrating complexities & nuance - once you begin to surrender to seeing it, you’ve opened up entirely new vistas in yourself. Yes, I’m leading up to saying it’s the same with vinyl vs digital (in a well-sorted system much more so of course) but the mechanics of it are never that simple to those, intent on being in denial. It works like this: If you try & listen to the differences you’ll definitely hear them - the tricky part to digital lovers/apologists whatever, is connecting that to their emotions. The human imagination is so amazing/powerful etc. that it allows us to override that connection. G-d bless you if you’ve convinced yourself that makes you happy. It’s an accommodation that is as convenient as the guy who persuades himself the surplus beauty of wooden boats is irrelevant. I have a Meridian 808 cd player AND a record player. I’m not a chronic liar who forgets what the truth actually is. I still enjoy my digital but it’s missing stuff vinyl has, no question. If you tell yourself you don’t need it/can’t hear it, that becomes your reality soon enough. Whatever floats your proverbial boat, regardless of what it’s made of. I’ll defend anyone’s right to look at Da Vincis with dark sunglasses on. Calling it the same as w/o, not so much though. |
Digital has improved a lot over the years. Early CD releases were usually pure awful, but that is not the case today. And Hi-Rez takes it up another notch. I have a high resolution digital and analog system, around 5000 CD's and maybe 3000 vinyl records. If given a choice, I still prefer vinyl-- despite its imperfections. I also enjoy the covers and other art often included with vinyl releases. These days I no longer buy many CD's, vinyl records are just way more fun IMO. |
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The major difference for me is digital streaming is about new discoveries, massive genre changes, all within one continuous listening session. Like my favorite mix tape all the time. Vinyl is mostly about nostalgia for me, memories of way back listening sessions from my mostly original vinyl collection of 50's, 60's, 70's albums. Vinyl takes me back to an earlier less hectic time, very calming. |
Here is a nice podcast to further expand on the discussion. It brings up a lot of great facts about comparing the two sources https://tmraudio.com/blog/the-hifi-podcast-why-does-good-vinyl-have-the-magic/ |
Lalitk: A No point in giving you those titles. In each case, I have (had) multiple pressings, and the others don’t sound stone quiet. In other words: sheer luck. Maybe you could go and pay $600 to that dude who does his “super duper stamper” thing and have him find one for you? But for kicks, the Led Zeppelin IV remaster is one of them. B I am quite aware that I made a general statement. Over 52 years of listening to hundreds of systems, my (my) ears have found that to be generally true, regardless of components up or downstream, excepting the room component which can wreak havoc with otherwise best laid plans as you are undoubtedly aware. |
It's a matter of opinion. But I will say the new vinyl ordinary releases, ie sold at Target, etc, don't sound as good as the older vinyl quite probably because we are being duped by Vinyl made from digital masters. The premium vinyl, like Dino on 45 RPM, sound fantastic. But if you don't like getting up every 25 minutes, you sure are not going to tolerate 45 RPMs. And the cost between $35-50-125 are worth the sound, but are they worth the money??? I recently compared a CSN record new release to the digital (using hegel h590, and Monitor Audio Gold 300 5G) and the digital blew away the vinyl (on a VPI Prime 21 with Grado Sonata 3). However, some older records, like Mantovani sounded very nice. So is it worth blowing 50- $100 on new single releases?? |
Generalizations suck! In my room some recordings sound better in digital format and others in analog format. As somebody mentioned above, the native recording format tends to be the best playback format. But, even that observation is a rule of thumb, not a natural law. Both formats have virtues and limitations. I have no data to support this observation, but I suspect there are generational dynamics at work in determining one’s preferences. I grew up on vinyl, and prefer analog. Many of my younger audiophile friends grew up on CDs and prefer digital. In a comment above, someone recommended one focus on one or the other format in constructing a system. I think there’s wisdom in that recommendation. I focus on vinyl playback, but recently added a streamer/server to the mix. I like this digital source for auditioning music new to me and for those occasions when I don’t want to mess with the rituals of vinyl playback. This works out fine, as not every listening session should be burdened by the often frustrating criteria most audiophiles bring to music appreciation. :-) With that, I am content and enjoying the music, which is, after all, the point. |
Not tipping my hand on this matter, but I'll say this - I watched Bad Night At the El Royale a few days ago and a good part of the soundtrack featured what appeared to be 78 RPMs spinning on a beautiful Wurlitzer jukebox. The sound was definitely ear-catching and I'm left wondering...was it real or was it Memorex? |
I have a great LP collection (and CD's) and really enjoy it. It is a shame you missed out on so much great music. The problem with streaming is the lack of humans choosing the music. You have a computer that gives you an algorithm based on what the most average people might listen to. XM 67 is great music, not why Joe the plumber and his friends might seek out, based on a computer program. Many of my LP's are not available on good streaming services. When they are, you usually must bypass the computer program or hear the same crap over and over. I do use a cheater system for poorly recorded LP's, with an extra amp and speakers to add somethnig to replace the poor recording. |
punkrock67 ...the record industry restrained compact discs performance because of copy rights and piracy same with dvd and blu ray...That's mistaken. The Compact Disc specification represents pretty much the best technology of its time. Since then, we've seen the music industry support even higher quality media, such as hi-res downloads. ... there is no such problem with vinyl, it’s only limited to you pocket book and type of stylus you can afford...It's also limited by the technology itself. After all, the LP does not offer infinite resolution. |
No two audio enthusiasts will ever agree on the greatest music playback system ever, but let’s take a look at vinyl vs the others. Vinyl was nearly put out to pasture by compact discs. We were all sold on the idea they were indestructible, well how many of us have well loved and over played scratched cds, they get dirty and the player skips, when they were new it was eye opening, you did not have to flip the cd after only 15-30 minutes of play...but for me, and exception of one or two players I owned, it just sounded off, a little bit cold, very accurate but maybe too accurate...it lost some of its exciting sound, a bit well digital and the first cd’s were not very good...the recoding was off and sounded harsh...they also were more expensive to buy than vinyl had been...they lasted all of twenty years before audio files were invented and people ripped their cds to their hard drives and tossed out hundreds and thousands of dollars full of cds into land fills and moth balled their CD players, many dumped their vinyl and cassette decks along with their cd’s...I wish I had bought all those vinyl records at the time...yet there was still a dedicated force still building turn tables and selling records second hand...a small little cult of vinyl worshipers... then came Napster and followed by Pandora and then Spotify...all but killing FM radio once Blu tooth was invented, the iPod and mo3 players came before and the tangible medium of Vinyl, Cassette and Compact disc was considered obsolete by a whole new Generation of techies...no we forward to tardy with multiple audio streamers, streaming in cd or near cd and allegedly lossless that is better than cd, but based on your dac and the capabilities of your internet speed, it is the lazymans radio... but in the last ten years, young hippaters discovered their grandparents records and its regained top share of the physical audio format...though many are usinh ion or Crowley turn tables and ripping it to their computers, it is a start... Vinyl from purely listening with a good turntable and phono pre amp and amplifier and speakers is a much better format for oure enjoyment of music...it’s tangible, it’s a ritual and it’s fun...you can steadily improve the sound by tinkering with parts of the chain..with digital its dependent on a computer and its chip set and algorithms to capture the music..it can sound cold and impersonal...the record industry restrained compact discs performance because of copy rights and piracy same with dvd and blu ray...there is no such problem with vinyl, it’s only limited to you pocket book and type of stylus you can afford... For my personal tastes, I like owning my physical media, vs paying nearly 300.00 a year just to have the privilege of having music in a library that can be wiped out with the service going bankrupt or other calamity... In the end I listen to a balance of sources...including radio...I just enjoy music as a whole...but I will not use a omni directional speaker like my Sonia one-I need high fidelity not mono...it was not pleasant to listen too...vinyl is and will always be king as long as music lovers just want simplicity...and to enjoy the ritual and the rich sound vinyl can produce vs digital formats, even lossless |
“I happen to have a few LPs among my thousands that are actually stone cold quiet.” @unreceiveddogma, Would you please provide some titles so i can give it a spin in my system? “digital solid state sounds flat. Vinyl tube sounds dimensional.” A blanket statement like above has no credibility. How about if I say, “Vinyl solid state sounds flat. Digital / tube sounds dimensional.” I’m not trying to start another debate but both formats can sound good or bad depending on associated down or upstream components. The sound from a particular format is very system dependent. |
Vinyl is far from perfect when compared to R2R and Digital. I have yet to hear a pressing that is completely devoid of surface noise, pops, glitch and ticks. IME, Vinyl is a constant reminder that you are listening to a inferior audio format...all in the name of nostalgia and tactile experience. If that’s what floats your boat then by all means, enjoy spinning vinyl. Both Vinyl and Digital has its trade-offs....it’s time to rest the pointless debate of vinyl over-rated superiority over digital. For me, R2R remains the reigning king of all audio formats. |
My first thoughts about a thread that starts Vinyl Sucks is ignore it until I clicked on the website and realized that it was that pasty face gen x er, whatever, that for some reason has to give his 2 useless cents on a subject he thinks he knows better and his insights will add to the discussion. Yes I've seen this video b4 and I think that he likes to hear himself talk. So rather than waste time about what he thinks(the provenance of who owned his Ray Charles disc before him?) , I'll just ad that who gives a s--t what he thinks and like chorus 361 box his ears. Then punch him in the face |
