Vinyl Newbie - So Many Questions!


New to these forums and new to vinyl, but longtime audiophile, so I feel comfortable saying that I know what I’m hearing but can’t figure out why. 

It would probably help if I summarize my system to aid in troubleshooting:

Marantz TT 15S1

iFi Zen phono preamp

Naim Uniti Atom as streamer/preamp/dac

Conrad Johnson CAV-45 S2

Klipsch Cornwall IV

I’ll start with the easy one

1.  I followed the setup instructions for the Marantz tt meticulously. Every time I start the motor, the belt squeaks and slips on the motor pulley before getting up to speed. It’s annoying and really cheapens the experience. Is this normal?

 

2.  The sound quality ranges from very bad to very good, largely dependent on the record. I don’t have a large collection as I just started with vinyl, but many of these pressings sound absolutely terrible. Many sound distorted and compressed. Many have tons of clicks and pops. I double checked the settings on my phono preamp which is really just moving magnet. There aren’t a lot of settings. One for MM and three for MC. I connected the phono preamp directly to the Conrad Johnson instead of the analog input on the Naim and while it does sound “better”, it’s mostly the same. 
 

I don’t have another cartridge or phono preamp to swap out and try to isolate the issue. Could it simply be that the phono preamp is defective?  It seems that if the cartridge was defective it would just all sound bad.  Could it be that my system is revealing enough that it’s showing the limitation of the iFI?  I just think it would sound “good” all the time, but never really “great”. Could it be that all of these pressings are so incredibly crappy that I’m hearing just how bad they are?

The couple of “mainstream” records do sound pretty good. Namely Gregory Porter, Adele, Gary Clark Jr, Miles Davis, John Coltrane. But even a couple of those have inconsistently cut holes for the spindle (some of them bind), significant warps, and some off-center labels. The independent stuff is all over the map. A couple of the John Prine pressings sound very good, but have soooo many clicks and pops it’s ridiculous - even after cleaning. And one of them wouldn’t even go on the spindle because the hole was so small. 
 

Anyway, I’m just perplexed and pretty annoyed. I’ve debated buying another turntable (with cartridge) and phono preamp just to see if there’s any change.  Any suggestions?  Is that my best course of action - to just buy another preamp and cartridge to troubleshoot? 

doodledan

Showing 6 responses by doodledan

Thanks for all of the great advice!!

The belt is brand new and clean as can be, but I will try the alcohol trick and, failing that, either swap out the belt to see if it persist or see if I can locate a product that might aid in "grip".  I have tried giving the platter a little spin before turning on the motor, but I really need the extra hand to stabilize the motor while pressing the power button because, for good or for bad, the motor sits freely on the cabinet below the plinth for isolation purposes, but it moves very easily and will inevitably wind up touching the plinth if I don't hold it in place.  Annoying, I know.

I do have a dust cover - I paid a premium for Uncle Kevin's museum-quality clear vue dust cover.  I have to say, however, that it's truly stunning.  The green edge looks like real glass and it's an impressive piece of...well....plastic!

I'll check the alignment again and reset the anti-skate.  I don't have a record cleaning "system".  For right now, I'm just using a record doctor brush.  All of my vinyl is new, so it should be relatively clean, just need to keep the dust off.  But it sounds like I'm going to also need to invest in an ultrasonic cleaner?  I'll read through the forums and see what you all think of these $400-500 jobbies coming out of China.  

I've always loved Audio Research and have owned several of their amps and preamps, so it stands to reason that one of their phono stages would be equally impressive. 

I guess I just figured that something like the iFi or MoFi (sub $500) phono preamps would sound "good" if not amazing.  It just makes me wonder what some of these YouTube reviewers actually hear - because as many of you know, the iFi received RAVE reviews and was touted as a true "giant killer".  But alas....it seems that, perhaps, you get what you pay for after all.  I should have known better.  

My path forward will be to double-check my cartridge alignment, see if I can rectify the belt slippage by swapping it out, and start with replacing the phono preamp with something appreciably better - perhaps ARC.  I'll look into the ASR Mini Basis Exclusive.  Any other phono preamp recommendations? 

Thanks again everyone. A couple of clarifications:

 

I am currently running the phono preamp directly into the CJ which, as someone else stated, is a control amplifier (integrated amp minus any gain stage).  It’s basically an MV-60 with three inputs and a volume control. 
 

I also remove the dust cover for all listening.

 

The cartridge is a Clearaudio Virtuoso - a MM cart that sells for around $1,000. 
 

The iFi does not allow for adjustment to the MM cartridge load and is defaulted to 47k ohms. 
 

I do not have a stylus pressure gauge but followed the setup instructions very carefully and believe it is set at the recommended pressure - certainly within the recommended range. 

So the phono cables coming out of the Marantz are hardwired to the tonearm, so I can’t say for certain what Clearaudio uses (they make the TT for Marantz). The cables coming out of the iFi are (cue the eye rolls) Monolith 3 ft RCAs. 
 

I just checked an Amazon review where someone reportedly measured theee cables and found them to be quite high in capacitance (65 pF/ft), so that might be an issue. What do you think?

I wish there was a simple way to post pictures. The motor literally sits on the shelf, completely independent from the plinth. Since there is already tension on the belt between the motor and the platter, it’s very easy to move the motor and end up with it in contact with the plinth. The only thing holding it in place is a bit of friction from the little feet under the motor and inertia.  
 

I listen to a lot of “independent” type artists who tend to be on small and sometimes even their own record labels. Unfortunately, the production quality is just very poor. Im going to have to rethink my vinyl purchases and stick with stuff that I really want to own that’s either on a larger label or just purchase audiophile pressings. It’s more than a little disappointing that new vinyl seems to be such trash. 
 

In a timely YouTube video posted just yesterday, Paul McGowan talked about that very subject and seems to support what I’m hearing; namely that much of the new vinyl coming out is just a highly compressed digital transfer to vinyl. Much worse than just listening to a CD or highres stream. 

@lewm  - That’s very interesting. I am definitely hearing exaggerated sibilance in addition to the clicks and pops. I have to point out that a couple of records are virtually noise-free. It seems that when the recorded material is at a quieter passage, the sound is quite good, but when the dynamics increase there is distortion, almost as though the gain is too high on the preamp. For example, if I set the iFi at the next higher gain setting (high output MC), it’s a similar (albeit greatly exaggerated) type of effect. 
 

@noromance  - I’m reluctant to use blutak because my table is sitting directly on an old walnut credenza (my deceased father’s old stereo cabinet), so I’m afraid to damage the finish. But maybe an isolation platform would mitigate that concern. That’s a very good idea.  Decware is a great recommendation!  I’ve read about the spin-clean but didn’t know if it was more trouble than it’s worth. 
 

I just ordered a stylus pressure gauge, so I’ll at least be able to check that. I did use a protractor to set the cartridge and I’m pretty certain that the tonearm height is correct, at least per the mfg recommendations. 
 

It sounds like, one way or another, I’m looking at the need to upgrade my phono preamp. In the meantime, I think I’ll just order an audiophile pressing of a known good recording and see how “good” I can get it to sound. 

Thank you go all of you who have responded to my questions - it's been a tremendous help.  I wanted to provide an update and, perhaps, ask one more question.

I tried a different cartridge (Rega Super Elys) that I picked up here on AudiogoN for a reasonable price - just to rule out any issues with my cartridge.  While it sounded "different", it certainly wasn't better and most of my issues persisted.  I took that to be good news.

Next, I tried another "budget" phone preamp (a Schiit Mani, also picked up here on AudiogoN), to rule out any issues with my iFi Zen Phono.  I figured that if I bought stuff cheap enough, there was little to no risk and the troubleshooting could continue without spending needless money.

In the meantime, I followed all of your advice and walked through the setup process of my turntable again. I'm not sure if I heard any improvement, but it helped me feel confident that I had done things properly.

All of this lead me to the conclusion (as many of you already pointed out), that I needed a "real" phono preamp - something more in keeping with the quality of the rest of my system.  Against my better judgement, I got on eBay and bid (and "won") a Lehmann Audio Black Cube SE.  Unfortunately, there was something loose rattling around inside the external power supply, so I didn't even risk trying it out and promptly requested a return authorization.  Next, I purchased a Dynavector P-75 Mk3 for a very good price and was optimistic that it would be "the one".  Sadly, I experienced a terrible ground loop that I absolutely could not eliminate, leading me to conclude that there was an issue with the unit itself.  The seller hadn't used it in a few years, so couldn't rule out that there was a problem.  He kindly refunded the purchase and I sent it back to him.

Finally....I purchased a Musical Fidelity M1 ViNL phono preamp from a very nice seller here on AudiogoN which arrived yesterday.  I promptly unpacked it, marveling at how substantial and beautiful it is.  I hooked it up directly between my turntable and control amplifier (integrated) and put on the first record.  It was a revelation!!  This thing is so quiet and dynamic, it's amazing!  I have lots more listening to do, but I can finally hear where vinyl is "as good as" a nice digital front end and clearly has the potential to beat it. 

All of which leads me to one more question, if you will indulge me.  As you may recall, my cartridge is a Clearaudio Virtuoso which is a ~$1,000 moving magnet cartridge.  I would like to try moving coil but am wondering whether something "affordable" like the Denon DL-103 could possibly equal or better the Clearaudio, or is that unrealistic?  If so, what would I need to budget for something that would clearly surpass the Clearaudio - and do you have any specific recommendations?  I like to keep it under $1,500 if at all possible.  

Again - I want to thank you all for your thoughtful replies and assistance.  It's been a struggle and, at times, incredibly frustrating, but I feel like I'm seeing some light at the end of the tunnel and am looking forward to buying more records and actually enjoying my investment.