I have just acquired a 32 year old JVC/Victor TT-101 DD turntable after having its lesser brother, the TT-81 for the last year. TT-101 This is one of the great DD designs made at a time when the giant Japanese electronics companies like Technics, Denon, JVC/Victor and Pioneer could pour millions of dollars into 'flagship' models to 'enhance' their lower range models which often sold in the millions. Because of their complexity however.......if they malfunction.....parts are 'unobtanium'....and they often cannot be repaired.
I am using a Home Designed Purpose Produced Rack for my TT Set Up, and the Top Shelf has an assembly of Tiers built on it, to offer the TT a good foundation to perform on. The AT-616 Pneumatic Feet have a permanent place in the assembly. They were the Icing on the Cake for a good period of time.
I have used them for many years and today they are resident under a Sub Plinth for the TT and Solid Tech ’Feet of Silence’ are used under the TT’s Plinth.
The AT-616 have been tried out on visits to other HiFi owners homes and in one case used under Speakers belonging to a friend who was finalising a Decision to buy Townshend Isolation Bases for them.
I heard the Speakers with both the AT’s and as well when Two versions of the Townshend’s were put to use, was equally impressed by the improvements to the presentation from each Support.
The Solid Tech’s to my perception have the most impressive affect on a TT, hence why they are in direct contact with the TT’s Plinth. I also like the idea that I can play with the Suspension Configurations, and the Weight Load contact points on these, in a way that the use different Materials or Different Diameter Materials can be utilized to produce a slight variant of a attenuation.
The Solid Tech’s have also been out more than the AT’s on home visits to other HiFi Enthusiasts and have been quite successful at creating a good impression for the other TT Owners when used on their TT’s in their own homes.
They Triggered Off my Local HiFi Groups Search for a more affordable challenger to be used for the same purpose. I know there are Isoacoustic GAIA in use on at least two of the systems at present.
One friend took it to the extreme and produced a Platform based on the Design Principle for his TT.
I'll be using TT101 with original plinth and the AT-616's. Waiting for JP to receive my saucer and do his magic. Then off to Miami to sit in newly veneered original two arm plinth. The AT-616's are super cool looking too. @pindac
I am as well experiencing a similar excitement for Vintage DD's, I have been slowly bringing a Plan to the forefront to be undertaken
As part of my owned, but not used 'Daily' TT;s I have 2x TTS-8000 2x DP-80 and 2x Aurex SR-510;s.
I have a design in place to exchange an amount of the Original used parts on the TTS 8000 with a seen to be improved materials.
Some the most important exchanged components are to be produced in Duplicate from similar materials that are composites, and known for their stability to perform without change in any ambient environment and will remain unchanged in their properties when used on a TT. The Duplicate Parts with have a variance in their Shore Hardness Scales readings, these Parts will then further allow for a fine tuning of a Attenuation when the TT is set up in its permanent set up.
The End User will (if wanted) be able to make some slight alterations to the Presentation of the TT, by swapping out a Part that has a Identical composite of materials, but produced to have a change in a property at the time of Manufacture to be a material that can be optimised for certain types of application.
I can then make a plan for the Other TT's if this Design Change to the TT-8000 is seen as a improvement over the standard model. As I am not seeing any restrictions on any of the the Stripped Back TT's that suggest the TTS redesign is limited to that model only.
There is a Plinth design Drawn Up as well, which is going to allow for a TT to be mounted in a Plinth that can be inserted into a Substantial Permali Support, in which the Tonearm is attached to. This will allow for the TT Trials - Original Model vs Exchanged Parts Model - to be carried out in with the exact same Tonearm Cartridge and be exposed to an identical Impact from the Ambient Environment.
When all this intention comes to fruit, and I have selected DD TT's from the group that have been the most impressive. I can then produce a Plinth to be inserted for my other TT's be it Idler or Belt and carry on with a furthering of the comparison trials.
Obviously the above has a not so common approach to a Preparation and Investigation into a Experimentation with a whole range of TT's used in a Standardised Set Up.
One of the parts used in the Standardised Set Up will be one of my sets of the AT-616 Pneumatic Footers, as these have lest a good impression on me for a Long Time
Have a question for you experts, just remember I am learning about analog and some things I might get it wrong. Just recently acquired a PD-444, the ability of mounting 2 tonearms and looked in good condition it made it hard to pass by, still waiting for it to be delivered. I've got an EPA-100 mk2 for it with an SH-100, as I understand it this is a Medium to High mass tonearm which would benefit from moderate to low compliance cartridges. For alignment, what do you guys recommend? the tonearm original mounting template is at $120 on Ebay which is nice but a racket IMO. I've got the protractor that comes with the Hifi News record but seems to be Bearwalds whether this specific and most japanese arms are Stevenson. Raul posted that some tonerarm alignments even the manufacturer got it wrong (was it Saec?) So my question would be which type of alignment should I follow? P2S is 250mm and Overhang 15mm Any specific method to test the bearings? Any cartridge recommended for it? As a second tonearm for the PD-444 what should I look for? MA-505LS? FR-64s or 66s? apparently the SAEC's and Victors are not that good as the FR and MA per previous comments. Just trying to look for a versatile tonearm different than the EPA-100?Note I also have a 1200mk5 Technics with medium mass tonearm. Thank you in advance for your answers, I'm excited with learning and rediscovering vinyl. Raul, looking forward to your comments (bad or good) I won't complain, your experience is legendary Chak, of course I'm interested on your comments tooLew and Nandric, I respect you immensely, you guys make a lot of sense. All the best Luis
Just recently acquired a PD-444, the ability of mounting 2 tonearms and looked in good condition it made it hard to pass by, still waiting for it to be delivered. I’ve got an EPA-100 mk2
Luis, unfortunately you can’t mount EPA-100 mkII on Luxman "armboard", it’s impossible, required hole for the tonearm base is too big (actually it’s huge). I have EPA-100 mkII too.
Any Technics tonearm with that huge base (like EPA-500) is not compatible with Luxman base.
But earlier EPA-100 (not mk2) is fine for Luxman.
As a second tonearm for the PD-444 what should I look for? MA-505LS? FR-64s or 66s? apparently the SAEC’s and Victors are not that good as the FR and MA per previous comments. Just trying to look for a versatile tonearm different than the EPA-100? Note I also have a 1200mk5 Technics with medium mass tonearm. Thank you in advance for your answers, I’m excited with learning and rediscovering vinyl.
Actually Victor are perfect, but you need a NOS sample, not broken junk. I think Victor 7045 and 7082 are excellent tonearms for very reasonable price, but again, you need to find absolutely perfect sample.
Fidelity-Research are fine, I have 64fx with n60 and 64s with b60. But I’m using them only with low compliance cartridges.
Another arm is Lustre GST-801 which I have on my PD-444 for a long time, great tonearm for the money (with great features, this is a nice arm for many cartridges), much more reasonable priced than Fidelity-Research.
P.S. Welcome to the Luxman club! For your PD-444 try SAEC SS-300 mat, Micro Seiki CU-180, or modern Sakura System's THE MAT.
Thank you @chakster , for the tips. I'm excited rediscovering analog, my 1200mk5 which supposedly is not an audiophile class TT sounds great compared to my digital, I would say different. I can only imagine the possibilities with the PD-444 and two good tonearms and carts.
If you have access to a woodworker and machinist, it's not hard to expand a PD444 with a partial subplinth and third arm base out front. I did that with a thick wenge wood subplinth and a brass pillar that accepts standard Micro Seiki brass cantilever armboards. This frees you to add whatever arm you like. If interested, feel free to PM me for pictures. The dense wenge actually dampens the entire TT and improves the performance of all three arms.
@dgarretson Thank you so much, I will certainly PM you, a good friend of mine has a workshop where he makes furniture with wood and metal, I installed the CNC control computers for him, and Solidworks too, he can design anything and have the router to machine the wood piece, it will be just a matter of selecting the right wood or board, I am not a TT expert nor I have too much experience except with TT that are ready to play :) but wood expands and contracts more than particle board, it is also more dense which is good so I guess you guys will know which material is best. I guess granite would be too hard to prepare for this task.Wow, a PD-444 with 3 arms !!!!!
You can’t do anything to mount EPA-100 mk 2 on Luxman, people have no idea what they are talking about! It’s impossible, no matter how many metal or wood boards you can do, the mounting hole of EPA-100 mk2 is huge! This tonearm is not compatible with luxman pd-444.
I have two PD-444 turntables and all LUX arm bases.
3 arms arround turntable is the ugliest thing I ever seen, leave it for Micro Seiki owners. Luxman designed for 2 tonrarms and it’s state-of-the-art turntable. If you need more buy another luxman pd444 for another 2 tonearms.
Welcome to PD-444 club @luisma31 I too think 3 tonearms on any table is ugly. Sometimes more isn't better. Luxman designed the perfect looking table with the ability to run two arms. Perfection!
@Chakster That's nonsense. What diameter hole is appropriate for an EPA 100 MK-2? If Micro Seiki never make one, the OP's machinist could easily fabricate or over-bore one that will pivot off an outboard pillar.
Luxman armbase size is about 60mm on one side, so you can’t make a 60mm hole in 60mm armbase, also there is a lock mechanism inside the armbase. This base is not designed for tonearms with huge mounting hole (bigger than the base itself). Ever seen a PD-444 armbase or EPA-100 mk2 tonearm together? @dgarretson
@chakster thank you for pointing out the dimensions, you are correct it cannot be mounted on the PD-444's existing stock mounts, what @dgarretson is saying is different, it is adding a pivoting board to add the arm.I don't have the PD-444 yet, it is in transit, I have seen pictures but not the actual unit and thought what dgarretson proposed was a symmetric extension to the TT, but it is an attachable board and indeed something will have to be devised to make that happen. It certainly won't look too appealing to the eye but he made an ingenious design which apparently it also eliminates some vibrations with the wenge extension. You have to "attach" the wenge to the base of the PD-444 though (logically), I am thankful for your proposal @dgarretson to provide the details, kudos to you for such ingenious solution, and I know it works, but I think I'm going to pass on this one, I have a DP-80 also coming and possibly I could get or make a plinth for the DP-80 and make it work with the EPA-100.I would not want to screw the wenge to the PD-444 bottom, I know it is not visible as it is under the TT but really want to keep it vintage unmodified (if possible). Thank you very much for being so kind to offer some help with my initial question.
@luisma31 FWIW, my PD-444 subplinth modification is easily reversible. The stock RCA switch box comes off and its vacated mounting points receive the subplinth. The outboard pillar is the only projection, and doesn’t diminish stock aesthetics.
Another thing you can do is replace the stock elastomer footers with brass feet threaded 1/4-/20 to receive points, Stillpoints, or similar exotica. That is worthwhile and reversible.
I think you’ll enjoy your PD-444. I also have a Kenwood L-07D, a SP-10 MkII, and a much modified VPI TNT. The Luxman is up there with the others in performance and has the best aesthetics.
Dave, I noticed that you now have an L07D. Given your capabilities and your propensity for modification, have you considered changing the tone arm wires in your LO7D? I can’t prove it, but I think they are a kludge compared to the rest of the turntable. I have made some attempts at disassembling the tonearm, in order to do it, but I am fearful of damaging something that I cannot fix. So I have backed off on the idea. One option that I have not tried is simply to run some tonearm wires of my own choosing on the outside of the arm wand across the pivot and all the way back to the preamp. That would look bad but probably work.
Luis, do yourself a favor and use PD-444 as it is, without any modifications like subplinth or whatever, it’s a waste if time and money for nothing, really. The original design is absolutely perfect and it works perfectly without any single problem! It is a well engineered turntable, just replace the stock mat. Do not change the stock feet, they are adjustable (suspended). Luxman is one of thouse turntables you don’t have to mess arround, you don’t need a plinth! Read about clever engineering of this machine first.
Lew, the L07D came to me with the Kenwood tonearm rewired from cartridge clips to RCA males. I believe it has Cardas wiring. The fellow who sold it to me said that it was a fairly simple matter to loosen or uncouple the bearing and slip through the wires. Perhaps, but he had above average dexterity. This was amply demonstrated as he described the job while standing upright in the process of dismantling a Lyra Atlas from the detached tonearm without bothering to fix a stylus guard. I once rewired a rare Micro Seiki 808X with broken wires. That was a delicate job that I would not want to repeat.
Chakster, a stock PD-444 is very nice indeed. However one weakness in its design may be the relatively slight structure of the tonearm sleds and the locking mechanism that secures them at a single point. Kenwood put lots of thought into a heroically built arm base that couples to the plinth and motor housing through a massive substructure. My Wenge subchassis for the PD-444 was similarly conceived. I compared two identical SME 3012R arms with ART7 cartridges on the Luxman. The arm on the Wenge pedestal sounded better. On the other hand, if you want to believe that a stock PD-444 is an immaculate conception, so be it.
@dgarretson If you think your upgrade is better then it’s fine, but it’s you and your system. I have about 8 Luxman armbases (all types) and they are all fine in my system to my ears just like my two stock Luxman turntables. The reason I bought this turntable after SP-10 mkII is because I don’t want to "upgrade" anything in the "plinth" or armboards like we do with some other turntables constantly.
The PD-444 is a workstation for nearly all tonearms. If someone is buying Luxman the best thing to do is to use it as it is, but not to mess around with "upgrades" (in my opinion). For "upgrades" there are many drives like TT-101 or DP-80 to make a custom plinth etc.
I’ve seen a wooden plinth made for PD-444 but I don’t like it. A nice LUX turntable in this plinth look like a cheap Thorens from the grandpa.
I am in the process of opening my PD-444, checking the boards etc. very clean I have to say.Should I lubricate (or try) the spindle from the inside of the motor? with synthetic oil? or I better leave it the way it is? I just realized that loosing the screws of the motor you need to adjust it so the plate turns freely or it could get close to the actual plinth ...
This is certainly odd to say the least, I can't fit the motor back in a way the platter doesn't touch the plinth and turns freely, it came already kind of leaning towards the right by a millimeter or so but now it just won't fit properly, I wonder if I should use washers to keep the motor lifted higher and the platter higher too
My JVC QL-Y66F was making a bit of a clicking noise as the platter was spinning. Not audible through the speakers, but didn't seem like a good thing. I looked inside to see if some of the Plasti-clay I used to damp the plinth had come loose, but all seemed good there. I put 3 little drops of oil in the bearing and mounted my Denon DL-301 MK 2. No more clicking and it sounds a lot better than it did with the Shure V15 MK IV with the Jico SAS stylus.
I have about $1000 into the turntable, cartridge, and phono stage and while it doesn't rival my big rig by any means, it would be hard to beat for how much I have invested.
In addition to adjusting the screw under the bearing well in order to
set platter height, one can also shim the motor up, if the platter is
rubbing on the escutcheon. I found on my TT101, in the course of
investigating this new noise issue, that my motor is shimmed by two very
thin washers under 2 of the 3 fastening screws. Under the third screw,
there are 3 such washers (or shims).
So I guess I have to play with the washers and get the platter higher and free of the "escutcheon" 1st time I have seen that word
Thanks @big_greg but I see the platter touching the "escutcheon"Opened the motor there is nowhere to put oil there, looks completely sealed, from the top of the spindle it looks sealed too I don't know if putting one drop of oil there will go "in".When I mount the motor again I noticed you can move it from the bottom with a better grip and I might be able to adjust it to spin farther from other parts.
Sorry @luisma31 I wasn't giving advice, just sharing the joy of my vintage DD. I did just put a couple of drops of oil at the top of the spindle however. I suggest looking for the manual for your turntable on vinyl engine.
My Experience with being willing to investigate the condition of Vintage TT Platter Bearings, has helped me form the Viewpoint that they should not be 'Trusted as being in a Good Condition' and not left without undergoing a Internal Inspection. Once having access to the Internals of the housing a Cleaning and Service will be the best practice.
I first learnt of this through my purchasing a Garrard 401in the 90's. I looked upon it as Vintage Car in relation to the Mechanics, and felt it would be best Serviced where the Moving Parts were concerned.
This lesson was furthered when I got involved with Lenco GL 75's and was reading much of the information that is available on the Bearings Condition and Servicing undertaken. Note: Idler Drive Platter Bearing Housings are well thought out in relation to retaining a lubrication, and a residual of a Lubrication will usually be discovered within the housing. The above TT's have a reasonably easy access to a Bearing for removal of the Housing from the Chassis.
Note: The following DD TT's have a few extra parts requiring removing to remove the Bearing Housing, so a little bit more of a Photo Documentation will support the reinstatement of any removed parts.
I now have as addition to the TT Collection, a selection of DD TT's, that are made up of the SP10, TTS 8000, DP 80 and Aurex SR 520. The SP10's Platter Bearing has been Serviced for me as Part of the TT's Overhaul. I have personally undertaken the investigations the other DD TT's Bearings.
I have discovered TTS 8000's which have had a noticeable side ways movement on the Spindle when hand pressure is applied. I also know that other TTS 8000's have been reported to have a eccentric rotation, and it is the above condition that 'could ?' be the contributing cause. More recently a TTS 8000 has been discovered to have a Scribed Groove etched into the Base of the Spindle.
My reports on my findings have produced a extended thread on another forum, where other TTS owners have reported on what they witnessed when carrying out their own inspections. Note: The DD TT's I have Inspected the Bearing Housings Internal on have all shown no evidence of any quantity of Lubrication Residual, it is safer to say they have developed into running as a 'Dry Bearing'. There has been evidence of a colouration left on the Spindle, but this has a more of a friction, rather than being slippery.
The methods used at the Sump to retain lubrication are not so impressive either, a little extra thought will produce a much improved interface for the seals used.
More concerning and one of the reasons I continually report on this, is that there has also been Gold Coloured Dust seen in the Spindle Housing of a TT I have Inspected. It is believed the dust is from the Spindle when rotating be able to rubbing against the Sintered Bronze Bush and the Dust is produced through friction and accelerated through the dust being abrasive. The Dust will also be capable of sealing the Perforations in the Bush and trapping the impregnated lubricant. What ever way this is perceived, abrasive particle within the Bearing Housing is an unwanted condition, especially when the bearing appears to have developed into running as a Dry Bearing. Vintage DD Bearings are not a everyday item to be come by, so any efforts made to keep them in the most usable condition will be a good practice.
I am not reporting on this to cause an upset, but it is a report that a Vintage TT's Platter Bearing can be in a condition that would benefit from an Investigation for the condition and while learning of the condition a follow up, thorough cleaning of the Bearing Housing, undertaking a exchange of the Bushes, expressing a little extra thought on , or inquiring how to treat the Sump Parts, to keep a lubricant within the Housing avoiding a acceleration of Lubricant Seepage, and adding Lubrication during the rebuild are all considerations and actions that will offer a increased peace of mind to the TT user.
Certainly good advice, I just don’t have the skills or tools to open the actual motor where the spindle and magnet mechanism are, afraid to break it, I could open the housing but removing the board with these thin wires etc. I don’t think will do.Eventually I could locate a skilled tech who could take a look and do some of the advisable maintenance you are mentioningThank you for sharing your experience ..
Have to report adjusting and centering the motor on the PD-444 was extremely easy once you know how to do it. I am stunned by how simplistic yet great engineering this TT offers, I am sure it is not the best TT out there, surpassed by some others but mounting arms and fiddling around with the TT this was really designed for simple operation.
This is one of the best DD turntables and once you will compare it to some others you will understand it. The benefit is its integrated aluminum “plinth”, so you don’t have to think about plinth at all. Start using it and realize this is a High-End turntable with decent motor. The fact that only a few people on audiogon have PD-444 is something to think about. Read old comment from user cobra213 (if i remember his nickname correctly). With the right cartridge on your FR-64s tonearm I’m sure it will be hard to find anything better than Lux PD-444. Market value of PD-444 turntable in mint condition is over $4k.
Luis, As you noted, my finding of the shims under the motor was for the Victor TT101, not for the PD444. I don’t own a PD444. Did you find a similar system for mounting its motor? As Pindac either said or implied, what you have to do most of the time in order to inspect the bearing and replace the lubricant (which is always a good idea for a turntable more than 40 years old, unless you know it has recently been serviced) is to figure out how to remove the spindle from the bearing well. (Maybe Dave or Chak can instruct you as regards the PD444.) Then you will be able to see what you have there. See if there is a lot of residue from the old original lubricant, and if there is, you can clean it out with a mild solvent; I use photographic lens paper soaked in the solvent, because that type of paper does not leave fragments of itself behind. You definitely do not want the bearing well to get contaminated with any foreign particulate material. So I don’t use a Q-tip or any conventional tissue. For lubricant, there are many opinions. The L07D group to which I belong recommends synthetic motor oil, single-weight; I think it’s 20W Redball. I now use it in all my vintage DD turntables.
Hey Lew, not really, there are 4 screws attaching the motor to the plinth and 1 single washer between the motor and such plinth but the trick to align the motor is to handle the motor from below, you get a better grip and there is some tolerances to wiggle it and adjust it any way you want, very simple system.The spindle removal seems to be challenging, I opened the motor and there is a board but I can't see how to access the spindle, there are some wires going into that area and looks complex to manage and get in there.Per some other member recommendations I am using this oil as multipurpose for everything "
ROYAL PURPLE SYNTHETIC" looks to be appropriate.Here are some pictures how the board look, this TT either had almost no use or it was serviced and I am inclined to think it was serviced indeed, it is very clean inside https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e6zkpkdj0jf83mo/AADJGfDYFFKoj5o6m5ZKdZjMa?dl=0
I can’t recall if I dismantled and lubed the bearing. I replaced all original electrolytic capacitors and recalibrated the two speed pots. Vinyl Engine has a Luxman service note on this simple procedure, which requires only a voltmeter.
Your photos confirm that all original electrolytics are in place. If you want to recap(a good idea) feel free to PM me for a Digikey BOM of the appropriate Panasonic substitutions. It’s around $25 in parts.
Royal Purple Synthetic is a perfectly good alternative lubricant to the Redball. Preferably you want single weight, between 0 and 20W. I keep meaning to check my container of Redball so I can quote the weight exactly, and I keep forgetting. The PCB and wiring you see in the PD444, apparently blocking access to the spindle, of course has nothing to do with the spindle and its bearing. I failed to look at your photo but it might be a simple matter of removing a few screws that must hold the PCB in place in order to see what you need to do to remove the spindle, if you want to go in that direction. Like Dave, I am a big proponent of replacing all OEM electrolytic capacitors empirically. Some others prefer to check the OEM ones and replace only those that test poorly. This assumes you own a capacitor tester. If your unit has been sitting in storage for years, that may contribute to outstanding cosmetic appearance but it does not bode well for the condition of electrolytic capacitors. They go bad on the shelf perhaps faster than when subject to frequent use in circuit.
I just did look at your photos. First of all, you have turned the chassis upside down; we are looking at the bottom of the bearing well, are we not? Typically the spindle is removed from above, by pulling it up out of the bearing well. As an aside, the wiring harness is as much of a rat's nest as what one finds inside a TT101.
feel free to PM me for a Digikey BOM of the appropriate Panasonic substitutions
@dgarretson Thank you so much, I will PM you, it is indeed a good idea, my soldering skills are not that good but a friend of mine could do it, and I will pay him so he will be happy.
a simple matter of removing a few screws that must hold the PCB
@lewm It looks simple to remove the screws but my concern is the wires, if I go replacing the caps I can do it at that time
They go bad on the shelf perhaps faster than when subject to frequent use in circuit
Yeah I agree, it is a good idea.
As an aside, the wiring harness is as much of a rat's nest as what one finds inside a TT101
Yippee ki yayyyyyyy I finally managed to bring my TT 101 back to life after a few years of trying; it was a tough fight but in the end the evil was defeated. Now I’m going to get drunk because I deserve it.
It was the biggest and heaviest box I have ever shipped to America. The boiler box! Packed on September 5th, 2020. One of my Victor TT-101 turntable drives inside this box has arrived safely after a long transatlantic journey, it was serviced at Fidelis Analog. Now fully restored and calibrated it goes to a new owner, he will recognize a huge Peterbilt Truck with my boiler box, haha @knollbrent
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