Dear @lewm : "
but the notion of drilling an LP as he described it seems dubious at best. "
dubious? when you never had on hand the original one and where you never experienced it. How dare you to post that so secure statement?
You are totally wrong because that tiny hole is for what I posted.
Anyway, I don't care any more because I don't own any SS-300.
R. |
Dear @bimasta : I can be wrong but does not means I posted because an " idea/imagination " .
R. |
Dear @bimasta : You are rigth, I over reacted. Obviously I was not in good mood in that moment. @lewm sorry for that.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Dear Lewm: Yes, that JVC one was an steal at that price not only because the DD TT but because comes with a great JVC tonearm performer ( I own it . ).
If you read that ebay auction the seller gives almost no importance to the tonearm atacchen/mounted. Certainly he needs the money or his knowledge level about is " poor ".
I was looking for that JVC tonearm in the past, not very hard to find out, and suddenly I seen an ebay auction at very low price for a JVC TT that came with that tonearm and the JVC DD TT-71 ( great performer too, even the 101 and surpass the 801. ) and as here the seller ad was really for the TT so I bought it and now I can enjoy two great JVC items.
The tonearm is higly recomend.
Btw, for those that wants to have the DD naked experience and can't find out the JVC TT-101 or is expensive the TT-71 JVC option is something to experience and more easy to get.
Of course that the Denon DP-75 and DP-80 options are good ones too and at least at the same JVC TT-101 level but more easy to find out and I can tell you that through so many years using my Denon's I never had any single trouble about and knowing Denon I think ( I can't besure because I never had a problem. ) could be easy to find out TT parts to fix it in case a trouble with.
About the JVC TT-101 there are some parts in its design that are not shared in its down line brothers because it's an improved design. With Technics and Denon things are a little more " easy ".
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Dear friends: I think that Dover have several reasons to be highly proudly as a Final Labs TT owner. If I been an owner ( that unfortunatelly I'm not. ) I will be really proud of own it. In those vintage/Golden BD TTs years the Final Labs TTs was " unbeatable " about its unique design characteristics and no TT ( I know ) like MELCO, American Sound or Micro Seikis were a real challenge for it. Against the Final Labs any Micro Seiki ( I 'm an owner of it. ) is just a " child toy ". IMHO Final Labs was many years ahead of any other BD TT. Other of what Dover posted here you can read something on that TT: http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=6359Normally BD TTs has an achilles heel against DD TTs: speed stability, W&F and SN ratio numbers. So what? nothing is perfect. Tell me who of us can detect/aisle differences between 90db and 92db on SNratio? or between 0.020 and 0.015 on W&F? or between 0.001% and 0.0012% on speed stability or speed deviation?. I'm sure I can't do it but the higher/better numbers gives me mind calm and " proud ". Speed stability is always important but is only one parameter in the overall characteristic in a TT design and TT quality level performance and IMHO can't ( per se. ) define that overall TT quality performance. So we have not to " cry " because " lower numbers " till you can detect it against quality performance levels. I think that Final Labs can't compete ( in numbers ) against the best japanese DD TTs as Technics ( 10 MK3 ), Denon ( DP 100. ), Yamaha ( GT 2000 X ) and Pioneer/Exclusive ( PL 70L/ P3a. ). Not even the DD 801 by JVC. Btw, the JVC TT looking was a copy of the older Denon TTs, in the other side the double servo ( 1976 ) pioneered by JVC came in the Denon TTs ( not the 80/75 I own. ) too. Probably the one that beats ( now defunct. ) all those DD TTs was the one by Rockport. Subjective " values " are always important. I made " amateur " mods in my MS control/power supply unit ( btw, the motor came from Panasonic/Technics members of the Matushita gigant japanese group. ), in my SP 10s and in mi Denons ( 80/75 ) and in all those mods I " heard/hear " improvements or I WANT that be in that way. When we are doing " something " , in any audio link on the audio system chain, to have a " sure " improvement our brain is just waiting for it and we can " hear " it when we finish that mods. Now, the Krebs TT mods are not executed by an amateur like me but for a professional gentleman. I try to find in the Krebs's site the " numbers " ( those numbers ) before and after the mods and there is nothing about even that ( for an audio professional. ) is really easy to take measure on W&F, SN ratio or speed stability. For me is a must to have. Everybody that use those mods speaks many subjective " things " that no one can be sure why is that. Things are that Richard himself is here and maybe he can be so gentle to give us light on that numbers that can corroborate those owner opinions. Here I'm not asking for " rocket science " but if those mods are so " fabulous " must be reflñected on those " easy " numbers. Lewm, just think this: suppose that your unit, before the mods, was running on manufacturer specs. Example 92db on SN ratio: what if after the mods that " figure " gone down to 84db? If that happened to me then I will rethink what really I'm listen to. Why in vintage units as the SP 10s we have to wait for improvements? well 30+ years running the TT always degrade any unit, so a " refurbished " one can perform better. If we re-oil the bearing/spindle on any vintage TT is almost sure we can have a better TT overall performance. In the other side, when we made system mods what we are doing is changing the level and kind of distortions and if the mods were made by a professional I want to know those numbers. Many of us are accustomed to listen high distortions in our system and we are " sure " that what we listen is more musical information when it's not. I know that many of you don't care about and if you like what you are listen then: that's all about and nothing wrong with that because each one of us are " unique " and as any audio product or any audio mods no one is PERFECT and individual audio/music priorities are different between people. I hope that Richard can gives an answer that could gives some certainity foundation on its mods and what the people hear other that: " wow " or " I like it ". I'm sure that all the audio community will appreciate that. Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear RichardKrebs: "" We do not listen to specifications.
If we did, tube equipment for example, with its typically inferior measured performance, would be off our Christmas shopping list.
My view is that we can hear way deeper into the output of a product than measurements can articulate. ""
Agree, we listen to sound waves in the air. I think that the whole true hig-end audio community is " suffering " a historical trend/cancer where almost no one really cares on what we are really listen to. That trend said: " the best judge are your ears ". Audio retailers, reviewers and almost all the audiophiles ( like you . ) believe that's the " Byble " and that's all about and is not a fault of any one of us. As I said is just that trend/cancer that corrupted our today hobby.
Tubes is a very good example of that corruption but this is not the thread to talk about.
I don't " blame " you in anyway because you did not measure before and after, almost no one does, but could be really interesting for you ( the " creator " of that mods. ) where you are " seated ". If you want to disclosure to the audio community or not: this is your privilege. I can tell you that if I decide your mods to my units I really like to have those " numbers ": before/after.
I remember, many years ago, when was developed our phonolinepreamp ( Essential 3150/60. ) that its " sounds " was just " fabolous/spectacular " against what I heard on top similar audio units and for us was not enough our subjective judgements and we measured that unit and found out that its numbers were " unvelievables " ( example: even today the best units can't approach or beats our fully analog RIAA deviation: 0.012dbs! ). These gave us certainity on the why's and what we were " proclaming " in the whole quality performance of that audio unit.
IMHO, subjectivity or objectivity alone means almost nothing. My opinion is that both " words " are faraway from be one against the other but that exist an intimate realtionship in between and IMHO we need to know it instead that: " I like it ".
Richar obviously don't take the " road " posted here:
"
People don't know what it means anyway. Imagine a turntable going from 70dB S/N to 90dB !! You could pretend to rewrite the laws of physics with some doubletalk ..... "
that IMHO is almost an " insult " to the audio community but each one can gives its opinion in this " free world ".
Thank's for your answer.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
|
Dear @lewm : That experiences you had with your Ortofon MC 2000 is " exclusive " of that extremely low output design: 0.05mv that needs very powerful magnets.
I owned 3 of those gems and in those old times Ortofon gaves a serious warning not to have any single metal ( obviously that non-magnetic materials as aluminum is no problem. ) near the cantilever/cartridge and that's why when other cartridge manufacturers puts inside the cartridge box a metal ( magnetic. ) screw to mount the cartridge Ortofon puts aluminum one.
I had that kind of experience but not with the TT platter but with the Shure VTF tool that in those times some production lots where not made it of non-magnetic metal. In my case I can't save my cartridge and send it to Ortofon to fix it. So, be carefully with.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Dear @d: IF your Pioneer is a stock P3a then outperforms a stock SP10MK3. One of the " wow " SP10MK3 specs is the ruble figure/S/N that is 92db DIN B where in the P3a is 95db DIN B.
Could be nice to compare both units in refurbished status or even as a stock units.
Pioneer has nothing to envy from >Technics other that not been part of the Matushita gigant Japanese group.
Btw, the EPC 100CMK4 is matched on heaven with the EPA 100MK2.
Have fun.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Dear @lewm : In those old times specs was everything for Japanese audiophiles. All the great and top DD turntables were designed and builded in the same time ( earlier 80’s. ) and were manufactured in specific for the Japanese market not for Europe, USA, Asia or México. In that market Denon ( Dp-100 ) , Kenwood, Onkyo, Yamaha, Technics, Pionner/Exclusive and even Sony competed with " ferocity " for the customers. Specs coming with the same standards, no differences on that. The Exclusive Pioneer’s line was not on ly for TT or tonearms but for electronics and speakers too. As a fact in the Japanese market existed very top high end audio items that we just can’t imagine and unfortunatelly never seen out of Japan. Time latter TT’s were offered to the world. Btw, yes I know that you can’t tell music fromsome distortions but I know you are improving about your self when not many gentlemans not even know how to do it. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS, R. http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/player/p3a-e.html |
Dear @lewm : The 100M comes with its own tonearm that was designed in specific for the DP-100, so you can't mount it in the Final and I agree with halcro that those two cartridges that dover name it are not good enough ( I owned both and for good reasons I don't have it any more. ).
Not even we know the electronics and speakers and that gentleman MUSIC/sound priorities. That he was a TAS reviewer means almost that but nothing more and certainly not a guarantee about.
I think that as good as it's the P3a the DP 100M is a must to have too. I had the opportunity to listen it when was marketed in USA through the Laredo Denon distributor that was a very entushiast audiophile. Unfortunatelly was mto high of price for me but always like me as a very top contender against anything down there.
The Denon motor is truly special as no other because they took the same Denon cutting lathe motor they manufactured/marketed in those times.
@halcro , IMHO it does not matters what you can do in a TT-101 always will be an inferior unit to the stock DP-100. Thinking in different way can be only a misunderstood of what we are talking about. Maybe what some of you don't like on this Denon is that it's not much you can do to " play " with up-dates.
Btw, this is what tuchan posted about his unit:
"""
what I can say is the 100M with its surprisingly good arm provides an absolutely stunning sound. I will build an extra arm pod ..... """
Btw, the real " deal " for all those old times about the Final TT was that through its power supply it develops its own electrical needs and is not disturbed by the normal imperfections of a home electrical source. That's all.
In the other side, it's really a hard task to say which DD TTs between the P3a, LO70D or Denonn DP100 is really better. We have to have the same tonearm/cartridge in all of them to compare it and maybe what we will found out is that only performs a little different but not better one of the other. Who really knows?
What's clear for me is that we can't go wrong with either unit and no a vintage or today BD unit can't compete with.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Btw, after the success of the DP-100 Denon designed the DP-X that in theory was even better uit but unfortunatelly never comes out to the market.
@halcro , I think that not even the 801 is in the Denon league.
R. |
Dear @totem395 : Yes, there are options because Denon supplied additional arm board to owner that ask for.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not Distortions,
R. |
Dear @downunder : No best tonearm for a TP4 cartridge. Still with out the EPA 100MK2 characteristics: 100% Boron build material and and dynamic damping choosed by the owner. All in all really good tonearm and maybe the cartridge could performs better in this than in the 100MK2 due that does not needs the universal adapter. Good TT/tonearm you bougth, congratulations.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS,
R.
|
Dear @lewm : Normally in this and other threads but in the same subject your advise is the same : replace electrolytic caps and you terrorice the DD vintage owners with that not very good founded advise.
If you take 10K vintage DD TT maybe you can find out 10 of them that could be with some kind of problems and I'm not saying in specific that those problems came from the caps but from anywhere.
I own sevfal vintage DD TT from Denon, Technics, JVC and Pioneer and no single one even that were out of play for " hundreds " of years when I put to spin everything is fine.
Many of my audio friends here what own are vintage DD TT and no one and I mean it never had a single problem with.
I respect you as as I respect other gentlemans in the thread but I think that we don't have to be worried about especially with units as that @gillatgh 's Sony. Don't need to terrorice because of that.
I own other vintage electronics and never never failed because electrolytic caps ! ! !
Things are that from some years now the refurbished vintage TT ( as after market analog " improvements " items .) is the best audio bus$sines of the last two centurys thank's to that " terrorice " with no clear foundations that as always only: " I like it more than before. ".
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Dear @lewm @best-groove and friends: Today we don´t have to live " dangerously " any more and we don't have to follow buying vintage DD turntables and certainly not the TT-101 that's not a " superlative " TT and way inferior to the Technics an even to Denon and for what we can read here and elsewhere no a truly great electronic design as the Yamahas, Denons,Pionners, Technics or Kenwoods. TT-101 is an inferior unit.
Obviously that people that makes the refurbish work as JP always will speaks according and nothing wrong with that.
Anyway, the today new Technics units are at really nice price with no sproblems and in many ways are better designs that its vintage brothers.
I think is the way to go. I'm not telling you to put on sale your Kenwood or Exclusive or DP-100 but to forget the other units including the vintage Technics.
I was a proponent of those vintage Technics and other DD unit ( never the TT-101. ) but today that " tale " is end/closed. We have a " new kid in the block ".
All of you make you a favor and if your unit fails just forgeret and give up with and go for the " new kid...".
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
|
Dear @best-groove: Many years ago when I rediscovered again my Denon units I was really exited because outperformed my MS RX5000 easily and then I bougth 3 SP-10s.
If I remember and in Agon was me whom started/proponent of first de DD alternative along Technics/Denon machines when everybody here were in love with their Walker, Basis and all the BD stuff. I'm still a proponent of the DD alternative but here that enthusiasm as the one you have for the vintage TT like the TT-101 or even if you can't afford Technics SP10 MK2/3 has today no reason at all. With some of the other units you named is a little different.
@lewm I know that you are in love with your excelent and refurbished SP10 MK3 as are other owners over the earth.
Well the new Technics are superior units to your units or the Artisan ones or from whatever comes and the prices of the new Technics will be down over time so this is the time to take care of your money and put on sale your Technics because today still are some advocates for and in very short time no one will give you the kind of money you can get today.
If you put on sale you can have several rewards because with that money you can buy the top new Technic unit.
Btw, I know from very well source that Denon is forthcoming too and this is a great news for all the analog high end world. I own no more SP-10s.
@jpjones3318, my engliash understanding is really bad and if you are not a refurbish gentleman then accept my apologizes about because that's what I understand.
Anyway, time to sale.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Dear @downunder : The SP-10MK3 is a great unit but the new Technics design comes with fundamental/vital characteristics/changes over the MK3 where the MK3 can't compete no matter what: the new Technics comes with a totally new motor design and now is coreless, its TT bearing is way superior, the TT platter is way better damped than the " ringing " MK3 and many other superior characteristics.
No, I don't have yet the opportunity to listen it but I don't need to listen to know its superiority and you neither.
It's the time to let it go the MK3 and MK2s.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Dear @lewm : Maybe " ringing " was an exageration: mea culpa. Look, those 21 lbs and the build materials and as you said does not impedes resonances. Micro Seiki big TTs has even weigthy blended metal platters that rings like a bell and I mean it because I own it. No the MK3 is far away from the MS in that regards. So, stay calm about.
Do you know why you prefers the Dp-80 over the TT-101?, not only because better specs but even that the DP-80 platter is not a heavy one like the MK3 and others is way silent that many due to the double platter design and even that my Denon units are dampened by me with a damped material underside the bi-platter.
@totem395 the point that you can’t understand how in " hell " any one can makes such kind of statements with the new Technics vs the MK3 ( that I know very well. ) only talks of different training levels between you and me and obviously different knowledge and ignorance levels in between.
I know very well Technics and I know that they can’t celebrates that great anniversary with SL-1000R if that unit been not superior to what the did it in those old times.
Technics has and never forgot its CULTURE and still belongs to the Mathushita group because of that and they are taking advantages of all that amazing audio culture they seeded over the years with the latest technology at hand today.
They are not a " garage " audio manufacturer and seems to me that you just ignore everything of what Technics name really means its real meaning.
Think in different way with other premises can be a misunderstood by your self or by other gentlemans that think like you.
When Denon comes again to competes Technics you can be sure that the items will be superior to the DP-80 or even the DP-100. Same for Pionner or Yamaha.
TT-101?: did you read the @lewm where by a " hair " he prefers the DP80 over a refurbished TT-101?
JVC/VICTOR never competes vs Technics, Denon, Pioneer or Yamaha regarding TTs or at least at that levels. Is a good unit but that’s all. If you own the TT-101 just put on sale and buy the new Technics or even a vintage Denon.
Btw, who told you that the TT-101 is so " superlative " as you think because that's a total misunderstodd by your self or the one that told you?
@best-groove you even do not own those Technics. I don’t understand your post. Anyway, this is an opportunity for people like you that in the near future will afford the MK3/MK2 with lower prices than last year.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
|
Dear @halcro : I heard not one time but several times the DP-100 through the Denon distributor/dealer in Laredo,Tx where I bougth my DP-75 and 80. I posted more than once that I never had the kind of money to buy it P.Layandeker ( pass on. ) was a really Denon dealer enthusiast he always was in love with Denon and Treshold. One of the very first USA presentation of the DP-100 was at Audio Den in Laredo and I attended and during the demostration Peter puts his little boy stand up at the DP-100 plinth during play to demo that how good was the very well damping system of the unit and you know what the music playing there was listened the same with the boy there and with out him ! !. So you are totally wrong with what you posted.
In the other side I listen my 71 " face to face " a 81 ( both stok units. ) and I did not see any single advantage over the 71 that was my unit and no I never had that opportunity against the 101.
Btw, whom is H.Weisfield or Thuchan, only two other persons as you or me nothing more. Differences as always are based and has its foundations on: self training, knowledge levels and ignorance levels and I can see that you never grow-up and stay stick there for ever. That you still own the 101 and those SAEc tonearms and many other audio items you own speaks for you alone. Your words has not a real significance when what you try to show with out success. Thuchan is only a wealthy gentleman with not very high knowledge levels in audio and MUSIC, at least is not what he shows, I have several " anecdotes " with him ( maybe he improves . ) that are facts but he is not the subject here.
Every one has its own all those characteristics levels and if those self audiophile characteristics are low or high is not offensive to speaks about. You can’t hide behind money or behind other audiophiles. You me and every one else are what we are. If I have a mediocrity level you can be sure that no matter what I can’t hide it and you can’t hide your real level.
You as best-groove still after so many years just can’t understand my posts because stay sticked in the past but all in the world in changing every second and audio is not the exeption.
Btw, @lewm I think that you neither took my point: I said that Technics takes all its accumulated audio cuklture with the today audio technology/materials/electronics at hand that they did not has in those all times so makes sense that their new units be superior to the vintage ones. @lewm wake up: your unit comes from 1981 and today we are in March 2018 ! ! that makes adifference: don’t you think? In the other side camn you share if your DP-80 is a refurbished unit?, thank’s in advance.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Dear @cleeds : You are rigth the DP-80 never was manufactured to run at 120VAC . My unit comes exaxctly as yours but the 75 comes with no step down transformer.
I think that the unit that bougth lewm was modified in some ways to run at 120VAC.
I don't know other DP-80 owners but my unit from new ( and the 75 too. ) always play as " new " and I have in stock status.
Btw, maybe the 101 design is very good but the JVC excecution was not at levels of Denon or Technics and even its manufacturer specs are inferior to the Denon's.
101: w&f 0.020% s/n 75db speed accuracy 0.002%
DP-75: w/f 0.15% s/n 80db speed accuracy 0.002%
Even the JVC 71 has better spec than the 101 in s/n db. Main difference between the 71 and 81 is the double/bi-directional servo that does not comes in the 71 and of course the higher price.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Dear @halcro : Fortunatelly the JVC chasis is very similar to my Denons and I mounted both in the custom plinths of both Denons with the same tonearm. Maybe you are rigth and I am " simple unable to hear discriminately..".
You need to grow-up in your knowledge and ignorance levels. I don't know what happens with you because I think that in this same thread ( if not in other where you posted too. ) I posted that that " touted " bi-directional servo in the JVC and that for you is the " penultimate wonder " on TT was a unique in JVC designs when was and not is ( I don't know where you try to learn or with what kind of audio advisors you are surrounded. ) that way because not only what jp posted but Denon stated about that bi-directional servo in its DP-70M and latter on the DP70L models.
I assume that you think that discovered the " black thread " with the JVC. Wrong, nothing special. It's one units in the japanese TTs bunch and that's all. Obviously that when some one ignore audio information can makes a misunderstanding in this and other audio subjects.
So, what are you talking about?
Better than that please do it a favor let it go the JVC in change for the new Technics units.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
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Dear @banquo363 : The 71/81 came with coreless motor, you have a misunderstanding. The 71 has not bi-directional servo.
@halcro , wrong again Yamaha ( my hands are tired to gives you the same answer: wrong again and again. Please stop to post, enough is enough. You are totally wrong. From where you learned or I have to say ....) used Yamaha motors not JVC motors both are way different and measures different: 75db against 85db in the Yamaha. That Yamaha used the PLL mechanism too is not why the GT2000 is so desirable.
GT2000 is so desirable by its own Yamaha design merits that has nothing to do with the 101. The GT 2000 can check its hands with the DP100, Exclusive P3A opr Technics SP10 MK3. The 101 is one more of the " bunch ": no matter what. Can you understand it? can you understand why are you wrong again and again? Can you understand that the " black thread " you think discovered was not but a " black thread clown " ? It's a good unit well the Pionners, Denons Sonys or Technics are good ones and I'm not refering to the top of the line of all these manufacturers that all are way superiors to the 101. Problem is that your world start and ends with the |101.
"""
which is a patented breakthrough in DD technology """ NO IT'S NOT, only in your mind. Dion't you read here that Denon did it along Yamaha, Pioneer and several other TT manufacturers? At least try to read what you read carefully ! ! ? ?
"""
but only a few (TT-81 and TT-101) include 'bi-directional servo-control' in their description .."""
wrong again, the 801 too and the Denons too stated bi-directional in their descrptions.
Masoquist never tired about.
@best-groove, is useless give/gave facts as the date patent with @halcro . This gentleman just can't see/read/understand facts.
Her argued because he want to " win " when the subject here is not who win or lost but to understand what is happening " down there ". Easy.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
@l it was cleeds whom posted first and then I gave him an agreement on it. That's all.
Take care. |
Dear @banquo363 : Something is wrong somewhere ( maybe you are rigth. ) and maybe the 71 is not coreless. Here says that it’s along the 81:
""" TT-71 in clear bracketsMotor :FG detecting Coreless DC ServoDrive type :direct-driveServo type :Quartz Lock +/- Servo {Quartz Lock Servo}Speeds :33 1/3 & 45rpmPitch range :±6Hz from 440Hz {fixed}Speed change :electronic / electronic switches {electronic / touch sensors}Rise time :1s (33 1/3 rpm ; 120° turn) {1,4s ; 180° turn}0,025% (WRMS)Wow & flutter :63dB (IEC)S/N ratio :73dB (DIN-B ..."""
""" Precise FG detecting section consists of 180 slots FG yoke with a magnetic disc and an FG circuit board with equivalent 180 printed coils for excellent precision of rotation.
The servo is applied on both positive and negative areas for the TT-81, but only on positive for the TT-71. """
and in what halcro posted ( GT2000. ) says " JVC TT81 .... ""
About the GT2000 the motor is Yamaha the differences on specs are to high in between. I think that other than Denon, Technics and Pioneer other manufacturers can buy some parts from other sources as Micro Seiki than choosed for Technics/Panasonic motors but that does not says in the GT2000 that uses the 101 motor as @halcro think and what @best-groove posted is true a TT is not one characteristic design. In the other side what MS sourced to Yamaha was the platter overall design.
The fact that MS used in the RX5000 Panasonic motor certainly was not the main reason the MS units were " so desirable " because almost all owners of MS not even knew about. Same for Yamaha and other manufacturers.
Anyway the JVC never competed not even with the 801 against the other named here top TT’s and that pátent is only bs and not as @halcro think that is the unique " all centuries invent " .
That he still sticked with the 101 even today says what he likes it: a lesser quality performance and not at the top as he think. Come on @halcro nothing wrong against you from my part but when even today you still listen music through those SAECs and FRs and the like how can I think of you in different way.
Anyway, each one of us are happy with what we own and at the end is what really matters.
Enough for me.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
|
Audiophiles buy Lyra cartridges because Scan-Tech is the builder or because is Lyra and all what this means?
R. |
Dear @lewm : I think you have a misunderstood about because the 801 measures way better than the 101, so exist some kind of refinements in its design that were not available in its little brother.
W&F 0.01% and S/N -80db.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Dear @halcro and friends: I don’t know whom was your " friend " that told you about the 101 but his advise wa a true deceive even a true fraud because it’s a deceive think or let some one thinks that something is way beeter that what in reality it’s.
As I posted here and elsewhere from years is that the 101 is nothing more than one more TT from the pile/bunch of TTs in those times and certainly nothing especial as you still think today. Not even its superior big brother 801, not even this!
Your 101 dream in reality is a " nigthmare " and I understand that with all the time and money that you puts on it as other 101 owners you must " be satisfied " with because you already wasted time and money on it. So no one can says it’s not a true top tier.
Take a look to any of these members of that big TT pile/bunch that not only competes with the 101 but all outperforms it and between other things measures a lot better than the 101 and please if you can’t understand yet how with out hearing an item I can have an opinion on it then don’t give me your answer:
Pioneer: PL1/3F/5L/7l/70L, Denon: DP75/59L, Sony 555/X700, Yamaha: GT750/D71, JVC: 44F/66/A70/75 and many many other TTs.
Of course that you can go on with your " nigthmare " and even the worst nigthmare /dream finishs through the time.
Any one can beats the 101 with the SL- 1200G/1200GR that comes with tonearm included!!
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
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Dear friends: If we analizes step by step this thread and all the posted facts coming from each one of us we can think or better yet I think on it as what happens with a horse/gazelle stampedes where each member runs with out no single and true reason and runs because one to " nervous " member started to run to stay aways from " danger " that not really exist where some of those horses’s stapedes ends when the horses falls down a precipice.
There are several facts that tell us that exist no reason to the 101 " stampede " where no one of you stampede’s members never asked why you run and followed running till falls down: down there.
The " nervous " member that started the stampede not only " figured " that the 101 competes with the SP10MK2/3 or DP-100 or Exclusive P3 or Yamaha GT2000 or other top vintage or today units. Obviously the facts tell and told to all the stampede’s members that the 101 just can’t competes at that level and that’s only one parte of the average mediocrity even its price tell us:
when the mid-fi ( not top tiers. ) Denon ( 70/75 ), Technics ( SP15/25. ), Marantz, Pionners, Onkyo and even JVC models were all marketed with way higher prices than the 101 no one of you took in count. Even the JVC 70 that came with plinth and tonearm its price was only 65K yens ( higher than the 101 and like other 10 JV models the 70 came with coreless motor and double directional servos. ) when the P3 was 650K yens and the DP-100 900K yens and the Final or MS 1800K yens ! !
@halcro do you need more evidence on why I write here that this thread is the " century’s stampede " a glorious one where all the stampede’s members unfortunatily are in that deep cliff.
No, there are so many reasons why I was not a stampede member.
No one of you stopped ( at some time. ) to ask your self: hey what am I doing with? where are those reward? why is worth to do it?
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Dear friends: Another problem with that kind of " stamped " is that if one member ask to other: where go we?, the answer is: don't ask and keep running. Stamped leaves us to : nowhere. Terrible.
@halcro : """
Unhinged.......? 🙈 """
‘Alternate facts’......?
👺
those are your normal answers because almost ever/never have facts and share those " facts " ( if any. ) where you founded your " way of thinking ".
This thread shows that. No one of your posts tells any one you are rigth to started the " stamped ".
Obviously the thread is a learning lessons even for the ones that choosed don't participate in the " stampede " or in that lewm " terrorist " way of think: " change the caps and other parts on those vinatge TTs....... ".
@halcro , I hope that you learned too through this thread lessons . I have to say that I learned, thank's for that.
Enough, time to buy any of the new Technics TTs.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Dear @ferrari275: """ Really? With all due respect to this person, I cannot disagree more with this post. Where to begin........................................... Both torque and power of the MK3 dc motor is measurably greater.... """ So what, each TT has its own design neccesities. """ The 10R bearing remains tiny compared to the SP10MK3’s oversized bearing, its a toothpick. ..... Again, so what? are different TT designs. """ The platter is multi layered, damped and dynamically balanced, like the Mk3, but weighs significantly less....... " and?, the new one not needs higher weigth. """ The power supply is switching type, not a proper linear power supply, which the MK3 has. """ So, for you the new unit comes with an " improper " PS? why is that.Could you explain about?. """ """ By the way, none of the stated factory specifications published by Technics thus far for the SP10R surpass the Technics Sp10MK3 technical bench specifications, nada = none. """ It does not needs to surpass it. Can you detect the differences in quality performance levels between 0.015% against 0.014% on w&f? can you detect the differences in quality level performance between -92db against -93dbs on signal to noise ratio? could you? Sir, from where took you those conclusions in your whole statements? Maybe from Chris . The Technics pedigree not only did not changed but up graded from 1981 ( that was the year the MK3 was realeased. ) to this 21 century. Sir, today is April of 2018 not 1984 or 1990. Got it? Btw, this is what Technics has to say about: "
the SP-10R. The new turntable combines Technics’ most advanced digital and analogue technologies, boasting the most impressive Sound to Noise (S/N)* ratio, rotational stability and flutter, and wow ratio of any of its turntables. The exceptional SP-10R prototype features a new coreless direct drive motor and 7kg heavy platter, for outstanding audio quality. Reference Class Turntable Promising Outstanding Results The SP-10R features a brand new, coreless direct drive motor which, in addition to the two-sided rotor drive system that was used in the SL-1200G, boasts stator coils on both sides of the rotor, for a more powerful and accurate sound. The heavy platter features a three-layer structure consisting of brass, aluminum die-cast and deadening rubber, just like the platter of the SL-1200G. By optimising the natural frequency of each layer, external vibrations are thoroughly suppressed resulting in a beautifully clear and crisp audio experience. The SP-10R also features a new ultra-low-noise switching power supply, which, compared to a power supply unit using a transformer, is better at suppressing unwanted humming sounds and vibrations. The power supply unit is separate from the main turntable, preventing unwelcome noise from being transmitted to the turntable unit, for a sharper and clearer sound. Introduction to the Market Technics is working diligently towards an anticipated early summer launch for the SP-10R, and the new turntable will be interchangeable with systems using the SP10MK2** (released in 1975) and the SP-10MK3 (1981) – the two predecessors which have been highly evaluated by professional broadcasting stations and are still very much admired and used by many audiophiles world-wide. Technics also plans to market a complete turntable system based on SP-10R with a tonearm and other components. – ENDS – """
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear @best-groove: """
If the engineers of Matsushita have decided for this type of power will have their good reasons, I do not think it’s just for greater material savings...."""
agree with you and agree with @lewm too and additional makes no sense that a good switching power supply design can introduce any kind of " distortion " when the cartridge signal never and can't pass trhough it.
Yes, we are talking of Matushita group !.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Dear @downunder : You are SPOT ON ! !.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Dear @downunder : Never mind, those gentlemans always live and will live thinking nopthing change. Audio ignorance only.
Regards and enjoy the MUASIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Dear @lewm : """
who then became a non-fan of it. """
After several first hand experiences I become no-fan of any metalmat no matters what.Metal is the main enemy for the LP reproduction in a TT platter. It's the worstplace to have any kind of metal in direct touch with the LP surface. Is way resonant and very fast for the transmision of the feedback resonances to the LP surfaces and then to the cartridge stylus tip/cantilever.
As any ignorant rookie in those all times I was emotionated with every thing with the SAEC name and I bougth not one but 3 SAEC mats and as I said till I learned and today I have noneof them.
Till today the best mat for any TT is the original SOTA mat that is out of production.
You can try to find out this mat where you can attest by your self and confirm my statement and I'm sure that you will put on sale that " garbage " SAEC mat that as all SAEC products are really very well manufactured but this is not its problem.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
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@lewm : this is easy. Metal resonates at listen frequency range and the feedback is takes by the cantilever stylus tip and the transducer takes those metal resonances/distortions as groove modulations.
Again, metal mat is the worst place to use in a TT mat that one of its main functions is to dampen.
That's all, I don't care if you like it or not. I like it in my SP10 in the past till I learned. So what, I like means almost nothing.
R. |
Dear @best-groove @lewm : " for me if possible on the spindle you c....""
that tiny hole at the inner position in the SS300 is not to fix it to the spindle. SAEC makes a research about and they found out that the LP/records tend to slide through a metal mat surface so its advice is that with a small nail use that hole to fix the LP to the mat and for this you have to make a tiny hole on each LP at exactly the metal mat hole position then and before play you insert the tiny nail in the LP through the metal mat hole. In this way the mat and LP spins at unison/evenly.
lewm, about the Cu MS mats I already did it several times in different threads but as you people only say: " I like it ". Yes I now that they like those kind of distortions but that per sé does not means is rigth because is the other way around: wrong.
In audio and especially in the analog alternative what we like it does not really matters but what you say do not care: principles or facts or .......
Maybe it’s because I’m a way more quality audiophile/music lover than you and several other gentlemans and that’s all and the origen of disagreements .
R.
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