I would go for an amp with roomcorrection. |
When I compare for example the Onkyo TX-NR5010 between XT32 and Pro the difference is stunning. Like you have a set which is 2-3 times more expensive. The drive and timing is superior. Like you bought a biggerpoweramp. But also the difference in sound is huge. So much warmer and much moe details and air. The stage is wider and deeper as well. The subwoofer is a lot better integrated and has a lot more control and drive as well. I have to tell that I measure at total different hights and places than Audyssey says. There way is ok, but to be honnest by far not good enough what i would want. My way measures a lot more dynamics and details. Also is my way of measurement superior in sharpness of the individual focus of voices and instruments. |
You are prepared to spend a lot of money on your system. First you have to listen to speakers. You are the only one who can do this. It is a personal matter. For Movies you should buy a Plasma or projector. All LED/lcd tv's have an almost 2 dimensional flat image. Are 10.000 times slower in respons than Plasma. The filters which are used for films are gone wenn you use LED. Why? because the light is projected from behind. Movies look like they are taken by a cheep digital camera. Read the difference between plasma and led. You will understand why it is that better. Wenn you listen to 2 or 5 channel ( or even more) sound you can better go for an amp, processor and speakers which can make a deep stage. Why? because 3- dimensional sound is superior to 2-dimensional sound. A few months ago I was the absolute sound of a very big audio show. Why? because I had the best 3-dimensional sound in 2 and 5.1 sound. I read that someone was talking about B&W. I played for over 8 years with the 802N and 800 S. I stopped with B&W because they are very poor in cross over filters. There is almost no depth. Depth is the most important part in Highend Audio. Without depth you never will get the absolute sound. Because it stays 2-dimensional. 2-dimensional sound I call standard audio. Because an amp of 100 dollar makes the same kind of image. Onkyo and integra are the only brands in there price tag who can make a wide an deep stage. Marantz and Denon are both 2-dimensional brands. How do I know this? because I sold them for many many years and I tested them hundreds of times. Go find for a dealer were you can listen to Monitor Audio with Onkyo or Integra. Monitor Audio makes the best cross overs in there price tag. They can give a very deep and wide image what will give you the stunning 3-dimensional sound. You wil blow every person away. Like I did at the audio show were I gave my demo. Also Monitor Audio is the best in respons ( speed) compared to there competitors. Speed gives you more control, more precision and a more natural sound. Take your time and do your own research. At the end you will get the best sound what fits you best. I promiss!!! |
7.1 does not say anything about the quality of speakers, amps etc. Wenn you use an amp which give a 2-dimensional image ( most do) you never will go higher than standard audio. Also wenn I play in Multi channel the stage is superior to all the 2-dimensional brands. I play 4-5 metre behind the speakers. And 1 metre beside the speakers. Bluray music is stunning because every instrument plays full touchable and to point out. Often instruments play far beside the speakers. For many it is a new experience. It is that convincing that people understand the new level in sound. |
First choose your personal speakers. And please do not forget B&kW make fine speakers but they lack a deep and wide stage. This is the most exiting part in highend audio. I did not go for the B&W 800D. I wanted to go to the next level for the absolute sound. B&W could not help me anymore because the stage was not that wide and deep. A 3-dimensional sound is wenn you see the biggest smiles on people there faces. I hope to give demo's in the US as well. Because I want people to hear how much more thrilling 3-dimensional sound is over 2-dimensional sound. Many people came to me during the show that they did understand what I meant with 3-dimensional sound after hearing the demo. It was new for many, even for shop owners. For me it is normal. I started in music and audio wenn I was 6. I got a big Philips stereo tube recorder. |
Monitor Audio Pl-200, PLC-150, PLW-15, GXFX, Pass Labs X250.5 ( update to 600.5 this year), Primare 30.5 mk2, ( centre I use bi-amp Red Wood, surroundspeakers I use Audioquest Rocket 33) Onkyo PR-SC5509 with Audyssey Pro ( I measure at totally different places and hight compared to Audyssey which gives me a wider and deeper stage, more drive and resolution. Sharper individual focus), Audioquest Redwood 2013 bi-wire for Pl-200, also for centre bi-amp version, use 2 channels of the Primare 30.5. Audioquest Sub3 ( in a few months update to the new Watchdog pure silver subcable from Audioquest.Acapella pure silver XLR Audioquest rocket 33 for surround speakers. Purist Audio 2013 LE powercable with Oyaide F1, Dominus rev b, 20 th Ann with Oyaide F1 3 of these. KE Powersource+ conditioner ( is also available in the US, is superior to all the PS audio ( I did test these),
Audioquest Sky for surr and centre ( upgrade to Audioquest wild blue Yonder wenn avaiable), 3 times Audioquest Diamond hdmi, Humax 5100 decoder, Onkyo BD-SP 809, Audioquest NRG1.5 for bluray player. Samsung PS64F8500 plasma
* Aurender S10 is also planned for this year. |
I sold Klipsch speakers for some years. You can also play very loud with these. But in the world of highend, they are not good enough. Why? Very simple it has to do with there cross over filter. Not a lot of depth. What I said many times depth and also playing beside of the speakers is the most thrilling part in highend audio. Because all parts are all full loose and tochable from eachother in wide and in depth. You can hear all the parts of recordings played in full 3d in front of you. I alway say: you can run threw the recording during listening. So you can focus very easilly on one part and later focus on another part of the recording. |
You have to read better. Before you talk this kind of bullshit. The Pl-200 is not a big speaker, so it does not go that low. But........it can play till about 118 db without stress. If you had better read my threats you would have known that I use the PLW-15. This sub starts at 16 hz. With my way of measurment and Audyssey Pro it get the best stealth integration ever with a subwoofer. I was at a show with over 50 distributers. At the show were; the new Dynaudio evidence platinum, Focal Scala's, Magico S1, new 800D and many more. Many distributers came to me to congratulate with the best sound of the show. The day after the show the chief editor of the biggest Audio Magazine called to say we were the absolute sound. And you know why......Because I had the best timing, the most convincing 3-dimensional image, best natural sound. On monday many shop owners came to me thay they never heard this level in touchable sound ever. And now back to Klipsch. The difference between the PL-200 and the Klipsch are the cross overs. The stage of the Pl-200 is wider and deeper. This part I can use to the max. I play 5 metres behind the speakers and 1 metre beside. This makes the stage so much bigger. The instruments and voices are foccussed sharp as in real. Most people never heard a demo what was this touchable. I played many bluray's at live level at the show. Klipsch was also at this show, I did not hear any person talking about how great Klisch was. Klipsch has not the accuracy in playing this deep and wide as the best highend speakers do. The stage is less deep and less wide. Instruments are not that loose from eachother. Playing loud does not say anything about the stage it can build. This is the part were you can reach the highest level. I could play extreme loud but still with a very deep and wide stage. No harshness and the sharpest individual focus of instruments and voices most peole ever heard. Next time think sharper before you think your Klipsch speakers are that special. Because in depth and in wide the crossovers are not that special. You never can reach the 3-dimensional level in sound. This part is the reason to blow every person away. |
Avgoround forgets important parts of the same test. Here are some other quotes from the same review:
but I've listened to this recording many, many times, and through the PL200s I heard details of orchestration that simply had not been apparent before. For example, in the arrangement of Pachelbel's Canon in D, I noticed for the first time that a percussion instrument enters the fray (at 2:42 into track 3) making "clucking" sounds. Could I have heard it through other speakers if I'd listened more attentively? Perhaps. All I can say is that with the PL200s in this system, the presence of this instrument was very obvious, and an effective part of director Harold Farberman's arrangement.
here is the link of the full review:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/monitor-audio-platinum-pl200-loudspeaker |
Link Pl-200 review
http://www.stereophile.com/content/monitor-audio-platinum-pl200-loudspeaker-page-2 |
Hi Salmoni,
take your time. First listen with your music and dvd's to many loudspeakers. Because it Always will be a personal taste. Then listen to amps with these speakers. The time you spend on this search to your system is the most fun. Enjoy it and take all the time you need.
good luck,
Bobby |
THX is a system, wenn it is on your Amp ( like mine) you know one thing for sure. Lucas earns money on the amp you bought. The story about the 3-dimensional image is 100% true. It is very easy to find out what the difference is between 2 and 3-dimensional. You need to connect those brands who can give a wide and deep stage. Like speakers who can en like the amps who can. You need both to keep the deep and wide stage. Wenn one does not have these skills it is almost gone. Go to a dealer were these brands are. You will understand what the difference is. I only do demo's on shows because I want to let people hear the difference between 2 and 3-dimensional sound. Because it will give you that sound were you want to listen for many hours. And yess 20.000 dollar is a lot of money. You only can spent it once! |
At the end the sound quality is what matters. This level says how good a system is. Many people said to me they did not understand what 3-dimensional means. But after hearing it became clear. Now it is very easy for them to understand. Why? because they heard it. Most of them never heard 2 and Multi channel this good. People came to me at the show and said; this is how it should be. Wenn they came in you directly hear the level in focus and in depth. It is that convincing. Even wenn you are not sitting in the middle, the focus is still awesome. You can spend your money only once. That is why I Always do different settings. For example: a source or amp of 2000 e with a pwercable of 100 e. And a source or amp of 1000 e with a powercable of 1000 e. The amount is the same. The end results are Always a lot different. Audyssey Pro solves a lot of acoustic problems. I had this year in a farm very good results with XT-32 in one of the most worst acoustics I ever had. |
Speakers are the way to start. |
Revel is also a good option. At a show this year it was one of the best demo's. It is good to read you started to listen. Take your time and you will find your personal preference. |
Every part in a system including the acoustics have influence on the sound. Wenn we talk about speakers the quality is based on the quality of the box itself. Less colouration is important for a natural sound. The material of the units is also very important. The respons says everything about timing, natural sound, control and definition you can hear. The magnet is also a very important part of the control. The thing you see often is how limited crossovers are these days. Many brands are not able to give a wide and deep stage. This sets everthing to a higher level. Wenn you want to have a 3-dimensional sound ( what is superior over 2-dimenssional sound) you need to have crossovers which can build this. For an amp you have the same criteria. Wenn it also can give a wide and deep stage everything gets to a higher level.It doesn't matter if you play stereo or multichannel. Every single part of a recording is touchable and easy to point out. These days the quality of cables are so good that it is easy to get a higher level than with standard cables. That is why I do blind auditions to open the eyes ( ears) of people what it can do. For HT Audyssey Pro sets everything to a much higher level than in the past. The overwhole sound is so much more balanced. Flaws in a system always attracts your attention in a bad way. You only want to hear the music or movie without limitations. Always change one part in your system, never more. Because you will loose the control and you are not aware what the changed parts do togheter or loose from eachother. |
First you need an amp or pre-amp which has the possibility to use Audyssey Pro. Second you need to buy a kit ( 700 dollar). And 3th you need to buy a key ( 150 dollar) to get access in your amp. It is not an easy system to use. Because you have to work extreemly presize or it will work against you. The microphone stand as Audyssey delivers for Pro is useless. They way Audyssey measures the results are ok. I measure at totally different places and hights. And I do my own changements in the settings. This gives a superior result compared to the Audyssey way. I did many tests during 3 years with Audyssey. And now almost 1 year with Pro. I get a lot more dynamics and resolution at how I use it. I even can create a wider and deeper stage. And the whole freq. respons I can adapt how a client wants his personal sound. I have a better timing and even more drive than what I had with the XP-20 which I owned for 2 years. The separation is even better compared to the XP-20. And the articulation of voices is more open compared to the XP-20. I can crush every pre-amp till 10.000 dollar with ease. In every aspect I can give a higher level. Even in natural sound. Last week I sold a 5509 with Pro also to a customer with a Pass Labs Pre-amp. So even at 2 channel I get a higher level. For Multi-chanel it is even more simple to win. You cannot use Denon with Pro for it. Why? Because it is a 2-dimensional brand. Wenn you connect it to a Pass Labs the wide and deep stage is gone. A few weeks ago I sold my old audio rack to a person who thought Denon was the best in Surround. He ownes the Denon AVP-A1HD. After hearing my set his word were: so this is the end of Denon for me. He understood that Denon is a 2-dimensional brand. And now he also wants a 3-dimensional image. It is that easy to convince. Only Onkyo and Integra can create a wide and deep stage in there price tag with roomcorrection. Primare can do the same but lacks roomcorrection. The Sp32 is inferior to a 5509 with Pro in every aspect. This year I sold 2 5509 to SP-32 clients. |
depends how much money you have? Always go for an amp which can make a deep and wide stage. Or you go back to standard audio= 2-dimensional audio. It is that simple! In the world of audio most amps are in the 2-dimensional league. Even many highend amps will give a worse deep and wide image. That is why I do not sell 2-dimensional audio anymore. People who buy it do not understand audio or like to limit themselves I guess. |
hahahahaha.....there is no manufacturer who will tell you this. In the better shops were the sell good highend they know. It is something you have to find out yourself. Compare it and you will learn and understand what depth means. And wenn everything plays loose from eachother how much more fun listening will be. Take your time. |
XT8 is a very woman friendly speaker in looks. But the crossovers of the speakers are not able to give you a deep and wide stage. The sub you bought is fast but cause of the double speaker use touchable image is not possible. Stealth integration is only possible wenn you use a sealed sub with only one speakerunit on the front side. All the sub's I tested with more than one unit were impossible to get the stealth integration. Stealth integration means instruments and voices keep the same proportion. How much money you want to spend on the amp and source togheter? |
MOST SPEAKERS USE CROSSOVERS WHICH CANNOT GIVE DEPTH. I AM IN THIS BUSINESS FOR OVER 15 YEARS AND TESTED MANY SPEAKERS IF THEY ARE 2 OR 3-DIMENSIONAL. LIKE MOST SURROUND AMP IN THE MID LEVEL PRICES ARE ALL 2-DIMENSIONAL. THX DOE NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE PROPERTIES OF AMPS LIKE DEPTH AND WIDE. FORWARD MEANS 2-DIMENSIONAL. THE BEST HIGHEND SPEAKERS PLACE THE IMAGE FAR BEHIND THE SPEAKERS. WENN YOU US SPEAKERS FOR AV WHICH CAN GIVE AN EXTREME DEEP AND WIDE STAGE YOU GET THE MOST STUNNING IMAGE POSSIBLE EVEN FOR MULTI CHANNEL USE. IT IS THAT SIMPLE! |
A toachable sound makes it more just like real. I use a THX processor as well. But this is not the most important thing for the end results. Everything in sound is about emotion and what it gives for a feeling. In 15 years of time I sold many sub's abd did test many. These days I have with Audyssey pro ( with my own way of measuring and settings the best stealth integration. For movies you also get more depth feeling even with the low freq cause of Audyssey pro. The superior timing sets it to a new level. By using the sub from 16hz till 140 hz the level of integration is a lot better than used to 40-80. The Monitor Audio PLW-15 has an extreme fast and tight response. So it has a lot more controle to be used at higher freq. Low freq. become toucable from 80hz and above. I am waiting for the pure silver Audioquest Watchdog sub cable to get even more speed and control. |
It doesn't matter what speaker you use. I would use the PLW-15 Always from 16-140hz. But you need Audyssey pro to use it this far. Without I also could not use it this far. Without Audyssey pro there are different rules. The PLW-15 is without Audyssey Pro a very difficult subwoofer to control. AVground you need to read better, I do not sell Revel speakers. I prefer Pass Labs power amps. I use the Onkyo PR-SC5509 as a Pre-amp with my way of Audyssey Pro measurement. Loudspeakercable; for my front speakers and centre I use Audioquest Redwood 2013 loudspeakercable. For powercables I use Purist Audio. Limited 2013 for poweramps. Interconnects; I use 3 Audioquest Diamond hdmi cables. I use Audioquest Wild Blue Yonder 2013 and Sky XLR. And I use Acapella XLR pure silver interconnect. |
Soon I will buy the new pure silver Audioquest Wild dog subwoofer cable with DBS72 when it is available. Pure silver will give you more speed and more details also from 60-140 hz. |
