Go for the JC Verdier! It is simply the best turntable that money can buy today.
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gladstone: verdier makes beautiful stuff, no doubt about it. i've only listened to it at trade shows, so i know nothing of its robustness or parts availability. if you live in north america rather than europe, tho, i highly recommend you consider upper-end basis tables. a.j. conti's products are manufactured to unmatched tolerances. moreover, he stands behind his products with unflagging care and responsiveness. of the tt's i've listened to extensively, the basis debut mark v vacuum is simply the best. -kelly
ps- i've not heard the amazon 'tables. IMO, they appear to be aimed at unreconstructed tweakers. (thats not, BTW, an intentionally pejorative comment.)-fks
Gladstone, got to be carefull if buying a used Verdier. There are many knock offs that didn't get the bearing right. Its a beautiful top of the heap table. You would be on top of the world with a few others looking down. There are two models. The top model is the one. I prefer the look of the JCV over the Basis D. No outdated comtemperary house here. A style that will never bore.
I listened to both of them. The Amazon is a nice table, but it don't reach the Verdier's quality.
Here in Europe the Verdier is very well known and respected among anaolg enthusiasts.
The Linn is by far no match for both of them.
The Best 3 turntables I ever listened to was a Platine Verdier with SME Arm ( the old one with a SPU Gold Ortofon Cartridge, ) a Well Tempered Super with the full mods from Marigo and a Basis Debut V vacuum with a Graham 2.0.
I think the Verdier is a real classic and the owner owns a unit which will satisfy him for years to come.
It is made from a Genius.
I own the Basis above, but there are some excellent records players out there.
The Verdier is absolutely in this group.
Own the PLatine for some years now, together with the Wilson Benesch arm and a Grasshopper 3 groovin'.
This table is to understand with time, it has no character whatsoever, and to me it's short of magic.
As monsieur Verdier has said; you don't BUY my table, you get married with one.
I live happily ever after.
LINN LP 12? don't bother to compare, it's like riding a honda 350 four, and been overtaking by a Yamaha R-1...
Keep spinning the vinyl
Posts above are eloquent & specific -- Thomas & Kelly voice my opinion. However, if you fancy the exotic, think of the Gabriel TT: platter in the air, only connection b/ween LP & TT being the stylus. The belt connects to the motor which, in turn, is separate from chassis.
As per Tuboo, keep it spinning!
Well, LP12 is a simple enough product that can drop in a supercharged turbo, drives like a rocket, and corners like no tomorrow.
1) Supercharging: What it need is removing the steel chassis and replaced with carbon graphite parts (literally identical material used in Formula-1 race cars).
2) Improve the suspension: the springs can be modified with new suspension that stays true and tuned, more musical and better rhythm and timing.
3) Changed the "tires": Add extra layer of support, such as carbon platform, Mana, or Aurios. Of course, I do all of the aboves.
What LP12 is not, a big heavy table that suppresses the music, such as TNT, Verdier, Norttingham. And I dare anyone with this table to check mine out.
I am totally floored by playing a nicely set-up LP12/Ekos/Arkiv/Lingo/Carbon-charged/Mana/phono cable upgraded set-up. Took me about 5 hours to take it from stock to super-charged.
BTW, a fully-Linn setup with Arkiv and Linto is a match in heaven, and need to spend 2-3 times to get back the same quality of sound. It will compete right up there with top phono stages with a mid-range price: more cohesive than the ARC PH3 (not surprised), and more puunchy than Vendetta SCP-2B. The only downfall is Linto does not seem to like other cartridges from different brand. With Arkiv, I wouldn't miss the Helikon a bit.
Well if you happen to like buying tons of upgrades, to get the thing going finally, be my guest.
It is no coincidence that the owner of Linn- (Ivor Tiefenbrunn) drives a Jaguar XJR tuned by Wilkinshaw !
This man does a very healthy business selling so many boxes.
I wouldn't want to buy a design which was so severely flawed in the first place.
Ofcourse the LP-12 is a very long time around turntable.
you can upgrade an old 68 Mustang for sure. does it make it a better car ? yep. so does the LP 12 no doubt about that.
The Verdier table was unaltered from the very first prototype for more than 20 years. it doesn't need upgrades.
Could you name one product which is basicly the same except for a little cosmetics ? that is very rare in our 'product of the month' society nowadays.
A big heavy table surpresses the music ?
Hmm some people come up with the strangest statements.
anyway, if youre happy with a 'bouncy bouncy' LP12 fine.
Keep it groovin'.
I listened to so many LP 12's and I wondered so much about their ( not existing ) "qualities".
It is a kind of "philosophy" with this stuff.
No wonder, when someone gives up and is going to buy a CD Player.
These always works with their first setting.
Linn products are great for dealers.
There is always something to sell.
I think what I implied:
1) The system synergy is important. Linn+Arkiv+Linto, even with no modification, can sound better than a mis-matched, but more expensive setup. 80% of people could have screwed up in mix-n-match. How many times we bought a wrong interconnect or component?
2) Some people are afraid to mod their equipment (but I personally only do modifications that can be reversed, don't chop up your equipment, and make sure everything can be retracted). Modification easily add more performance at less cost. The original manufacturer have to mark-up their cost x5-x10 at the retail level, so they have to design their product to fit a price point, compromising performance. For example, the expensive Sony SCD-1 has a cheap carbon resistors for the analog output, uses 5535 opamps to get balanced output, etc...
3) I failed to point out that I can mod the LP12 or DIY for less than the cost of an used cartridge. To beat the result, need something like SME20.
I personally believe that a SME20 or Simon Yorke may be the ultimate machine. For some reason, I don't like Verdier's magnetic bearing, but that's just personal, but I think to accomodate his magnetic bearing, some compromises such as the tolerance of the bearing has to be increased. To me, mechanical ground is very important to PRAT, and magnetic bearing has no ground.
If you would fully understand the PLatine's magnetic bearing, there would be no guess about grounding and tolerances.
The Platine does have a ball bearing on top of the spindle, this is not to support the platter, but to eliminate the possible acoustic interference and so axial movement.
Because of this support, there actually is electrical ground path.
The tolerance of the bearing is to a very high standard, and is lubricated by means of oil, which can be filled into the spindle galley thru the platter.
The way to really understand the Platine is only done by close examination on the concept.
Saying things like 'i don't really personally like the Verdier bearing' is not based on facts indeed.
But then again, everybody has the right to think whatever.