Velodyne ULD-18 or Audio PHysic Rhea sub....

Which is the more musical sub? Which will integrate better with my Audio Physic Virgos? I assume the Rhea would, as it is made by AP. Is is true that Velodyne (especially the HGS series) are more of a home theater sub? thankss....
Disclaimer: I am a Talon dealer.

Mythtrip...Velodyne makes sufficient theater subs, but that is about it. They are one of the slowest and most "non-musical" subs my dad and I have ever heard, IMHO (I am sure there are those that will disagree with that statement). If you have speakers that have even the slightest capability to portray fast transient changes (which the Virgo's do), then avoid Velodyne. As far as subs that excel at both theater AND music, you should look at the products from Talon, REL, and Aerial (in that order).

Best Regards...Mike - Father & Son Audio
The Velodyne HGS series have the lowest distortion and flattest frequency response of any subwoofer. With the servo feedback system they react and decay immediately. It is the most accurate subwoofer for music or theater. Whether one likes accurate sound or not is another issue. The Velodyne Servos play the signal they receive more accurately than any other subwoofer. You certainly should audition the various HGS models and decide for yourself. In regard to the older ULD-18, the new HGS-18 has more output, deeper extension and less distortion. It is my reference.
Take Care,

Please, no offense intended but stating that ANY Velodyne sub has the lowest distortion and flattest response of any sub is laughable! Of course, if all I had ever heard was Velodyne, I also would say it was impressive. But, have you ever heard a Talon or REL sub before? If yes and you still feel the way you do, then I am at a loss. If not, you should (after which I don't think Velodyne would be your reference anymore). Servo-sub designs are simply an excuse for lazy design work! Ok, I have said my peace ;-)

Best Regards...Mike - Father & Son Audio
I've been in Audio over fifty years and have owned or listened to just about every sub out there. I've heard all the Rel's and yes the Talon and the Aerial. I wish you'd try to design a servo feedback speaker and see the difficulties involved. Very few of the top audio engineers have been successful. That's why many subwoofer designers use Velodyne as their reference in designing their own product. We can all chose what we like or don't like but facts are facts. I suggested Mythtrip audition for himself and then decide. I stand by that.
BTW I stated the Velodyne HGS series (not any Velodyne) had the lowest distortion and that's a fact.
I have a ULD Series II 18, which crosses over to my Budge
Khorus speakers at 60 hz. It does not sound slow or on-musical.

The standard crossover point of 100 hz is too high for hiend
speakers, and may account for Uncle Mike's poor impression.

A variable crossover is essential when working with hiend speakers.

And, yes I'd love have the new Talon Roc, but I'll have to
live with my old ULD 18 SII until the dock strike is over.

"The Velodyne HGS series have the lowest distortion and flattest frequency response of any subwoofer"

There's a Swedish engineer with a subwoofer claiming 140db dynamic range--they say its "the best in the world." I'm sure it could hold its own with Velodyne. There weren't many specifics in the article since its focused on the new digital formats. But, I'm sure its distortion is quite low, especially when brought to a 'meager' 110db or 120db. The Velodynes aren't bad, but there is better. And I still wonder what the performance of the Kharma Acoustics Grand Enigma really was.

"I have a ULD Series II 18, which crosses over to my Budge
Khorus speakers at 60 hz. It does not sound slow or on-musical."

I would just like to point out with subs that there is a distinction between the actual speed and perceived speed (subjective, "it sounds fast"). I'm not qualified to comment too heavily on the difference, but in reality, cabinet colorations and internal standing waves, a non well damped cabinet can muddy the sound regardless of what the driver is physically doing: whether or not it is servo controlled, etc. Not to mention dreaded room acoustics coloring things up.

[The crux of servo control from what I gather, is that since it is a measuring device there is technically a time-delay between sensing the drivers motion and then sending the appropriate command to the circuitry to correct the motion--this is why some bash on it. It may not be significant given the human ears perception down low isn't as sensitive as the midband region, hence the benefits to the design outweighing the possible negatives (however, the switching distortion in a Class B circuit is still far shorter and the Class A buffs complain of that)]

Audition them both (all) if you can, but be careful of room room placement and nodes. Do your best to level the playing field. Velodyne are nice subs though and not a "home theater" sub (at least not the better ones). Ideally a sub would do it all, but when you have to compromise the design, the differences for a HT sub would come when the designer opts for a higher system Q, higher output, which in turn usually means greater efficiency going the bass reflex route and less extension. A comparably priced "Music" sub would possibly have a lower Q and less output (maybe sealed), with a bit better extension. (Note: I am not encouraging the "Bass Reflex=HT and Acoustic suspension=music" stereotype. I'm just using an example. There are very nice ported systems, along with many other possible designs: TL, etc.)
Kana813...Where did "Uncle Mike" come from? Just "Mike" will be fine, thank you. And no, a high crossover point did not account for my "poor impression".

Curt...As I stated, I wasn't trying to offend you, just stating my opinion. By the way, would you mind listing some of those "subwoofer designers" that use Velodyne as their reference? Finally, I completely agree with your final statement. ALWAYS let your own ears decide. The best product for you is the one YOU like the best! Regardless of what anyone else says (including me).

Ezmeralda11...Good post, appreciate your contribution.

Best Regards...Mike - Father & Son Audio
Just Mike- "Uncle" is a term used here in Hawaii for those who share their mana'o(knowledge or stories) with others.

Ezmeralda11- "slow and non-musical were Just Mike's terms notmine. At a 60 hz crossover point and levels correctly set, the Velodyne does not call attention to itself and fills in the bottom octave nicely in my current listening room.

I'm sure there are better subs. The best I ever owned were a pair of six foot tall custom built transmission line Epiks which tipped the scales at 400 lbs each. They produced a wonderful sense of space and air.

Dan...Gotcha, thanks for the clarification on "Uncle" ;-)

I bet those Epiks were amazing, in what timeframe were they made?

Best Regards...Mike - Father & Son Audio
Mike- The Epiks were circa 1984, before I moved to Maui.

I love the ULD subs. I think they are the best sub for music.
No-one having mentioned the Rhea yet, I thoght I'd chip in. The Rhea sounded excellent & seamless with Virgo's. There was no perceptible muddiness and on reasonable recordings the sound of the strings was very clear (i.e. many cellos).
With the Rhea, the Virgo sounded like a much larger & superior speaker with better micro-dynamics and good "volume" on voclas & strings alike.

The usual caveats: I listen & judge by classical; the electronics used in this combo were Symphonic LIne & CAT; the cables were bearlabs IC & valhalla. Cheers!