Although I have never personally owned a Velodyne sub, I could not find one dealer who recommended one. Several dealers stated that Velodyne will not stand behind their products when things go South. Yet, I do see as you mentioned, that Velodyne seems to be all the rage for many Audiogoners, so there is a paradox for you. I personally would not buy a Velodyne based on my dealers recommendations.Hope this helps.
At one time or another I saw similar trends and wondered the same thing about Rogue Audio, ProAc, McCormack, Audio Logic, Audio Aero, Audiomeca, DK Designs, and so forth. Then I realized the underwear I was wearing wasn't mine.
Tell you what. If I bought one I'd Make sure to keep my window's shut.
Gunbei has accurately noted that this is either a 'troll' thread or from someone of the 'if there are a lot of people selling it' it must not be very good.
1) DD series is not new - so there should be plenty of used inventory by now in the market.
2) Top rated in every review
My only advice - buy it!
Thanks for the thoughts, guys. No troll intended at all. I've done over 100 hours of research in the last couple months trying to find the "best" sub for my needs. I currently own a bottom-of-the-line Velodyne CT-120 (purchased originally for HT) and want to upgrade to something commensurate with my two-channel system (http://cgim.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/vs_user.pl?vdone&1107477492&viewmine&publ).
The DD-10 or DD-12 looks like a solid contender based on the reviews, but as I mentioned, I get concerned when I see alot of a product on the market.
Gunbei, great perspective as usual. I love McCormack's modified stuff and believe it to be great bang for the buck, but there's always alot of the stock gear for sale here. I had not thought of that.
I do have a positive story with Velodyne service. Several years ago an RCA pin broke off and was stuck in one of the RCA input jacks. I took the sub back to circus city where I bought it. They shipped it to Velodyne and I had the unit back in a couple weeks.
Thanks for the thoughts on this, guys.
I think there's 2 factors:
1. Velodyne is apparently selling these by the bucketload, so there's bound to be a few showing up.
2. Subs are very difficult to integrate well in a 2 channel setup. With good full range speakers, an improperly placed and/or crossed over sub will do way more harm than good. The DD series MAY prevent sonic disaster with the integral room correction eq, but the directions have to be followed to a T. And then, of course, a really well-integrated sub is noticeable, but subtle, except in certain passages. So there's a lot of potential for disappointment, given the amount of $$$ people are spending on these things. I suspect that some people blame their particular sub and decide to try a different brand.
Velodynes IMHO are as good as subs get, with less than 1% distortion - which is phenomenal. REL is also possibility.
Keep in mind, when choosing an expensive, high-powered active sub with proprietary drivers and circuits, that service may be necessary someday - and you'll want the company to be around then.
And Velodyne's customer service is superb. I have called in and been connected directly to a chief engineer without begging. And I know of a couple of people who have sent old busted ULD's in for repair and had complete upgrades installed at no extra cost.
So I wouldn't worry too much about the classified listings.
Well I have owned a DD-10 for a couple of years and
have had no problems with it all. I let a friend of
mine borrow my sub for a few weeks. He was so impressed
with it that he went out and purchased a DD-10 for himself.
About 2 weeks later he had a problem. The sub would shut
itself down. He contacted Velodyne and they suggested
he send the amp portion of the sub in. He did and got
the new amp back in a week. A few hours after installation it failed again!! This time he sent the whole sub back to Velodyne. After about a week he got it back and, you guessed it, it failed again.
He emailed Velodyne and they got back to him a few days later. Not only did they give him a new sub, they upgraded him to a DD-12. Needless to say the DD-12 has been performing without a hitch. He is now very happy with the DD-12 and I'm a bit jealous.
Given this kind of service I would buy another Velodyne
product without any worries.
Velodyne service is outstanding. So are their subs. No worries. ( not a dealer....just a happy customer)
But seriously folks, I have had an eye on the DD-12 since the beginning of the year.
I own the DD-10 and will be moving up to a pair of DD-12's due to moving to a larger space. The DD-10 is absolutely incredible, and indestructable if used with common sense. By common sense, I mean that ANY sub (even ones with built-in limiters) can be overdriven only so many times before damage occurs. The problem with some of the tiny supersubs like the DD-10 is that new owners like to push them just to get a feel for what they're capable of doing. After shutting itself off 5,6,7 times in a row, don't be surprised if you damage the amp. The reason this happens less with large subs is because pushing THEM to their max is so obnoxiously loud that you'll only wanna do it a couple of times.
If anybody is looking for a good price on the Velo DD's, feel free to email me at firstname.lastname@example.org. My dealer is awesome!!!
I'd like to revive this thread and steer it in a different direction. I have looked at the DD manual online, but it's not clear to me how you connect these subs into 2-channel music systems (without LFE). Is it similar to REL (run a second set of speaker cables off your amp to the REL), or do you need to run a second pair of ICs from preamp to the DD? Or do you run your speaker cables to the DD first and then on to your main speakers? The REL system seems best to me in that it does not compromise your 2-channel "architecture", but the DD subs are appealing because of their advanced integration and room correction features.
Second question: how do you know if the 10 is enough or if you should go with the 12 or 15? My hope is to find a used one and try it with both my HT setup (2-channel only using GMA Europas, so it would be a sub and not a .1) and in my audio system with Harbeths. The HT is in a small room (10x16, high ceilings), the audio room is larger (17x23, also high ceilings). I realize these are two very different situations, but I'd like to find something that might work decently in both so I can experiement and see if I really want to add a sub to either or both systems. So maybe a 10 or 12 to start with?
Thanks for any help here.
Drubin - You can set up the Veolodyne in each way you described. I go preamp -> sub -> amp -> speakers. I find the that the sonic gains of high-passing my speakers outweigh the loss of transparency by having the sub in the chain.
Though - if you dont want to mess with the "architecture," just use a preamp output, or run another set of speaker wires from your amp to the sub. You can still do all the room correction with the sub hooked up these ways.
for 17 x 23 x high ceiling, you would want the 15".
for 10 x 16, you want the DD10.
For sub sizes, room volume is everything. If changing it between rooms a lot is a must, go with the DD12.
Have any of you DD owners also owned REL subs? How would you compare their strengths and weaknesses?
I did an exhaustive sub exploration before I ended up with the DD15 that I chose.
I brought a Rel Strata III home (their tightest sub), and I liked it a LOT, but room integration issues... you know how they go. I would have bought it if I didn't encounter the DD series...
I would say that the REL Strata is a HAIR more musical than the velodyne. The bigger subs probably less so. Definitely neck-and-neck here. I am defining musical as: (hi Mr Tennis) tight, articulate (hear notes, not frequencies), and "disappearing" ability.
But - with the Velodyne, you get:
* room correction (this is the deal breaker for me) with auto room-eq ability
* high pass (don't think the rel has this, I may be wrong)
* ability to feed a mono signal for running 2 subs in true stereo
* remote control
* ability to change "profiles" with 1 button. I have different gains,slopes,crossovers, servo settings for:
-> music (rap/electronic, rock, classical/jazz)
-> moves (drama/comedy, action/loud)