I can speak about direct comparasion between a digital 1.5 M, V.D. MASTER and a NIRVANA T-2 1.5 M BNC
the master was more lush and have more energy in the lower extension but lack the ultimate definition and also the decay. Here it is a matter of taste if you like it warm or your components are on the bright side you may give a try for the revelation but they are EXPENSIVE but with Rick the service is very good.
for that money you must compare it to a pair of NIRVANA SX (same price range and probably cheaper) there is also all the KIMBER KS serie that worth a try
Hope this help ...
Ozzy, these are very good cables, IMO, similar in sonic's to the nanotec wire. They are also the stiffest, biggest PIA cables I have ever tried, even more difficult the CRL gold. They have these magnets on the ends that attract each other, it is a real workout to set up. From what I understand they are dicontinued now, and a new cable will be introduced, although at a much higher price.
Best of luck in your journey
Going off of my VD Master Balanced Digital cable, if the whole line sounds along the same order, you'll be fine. With the Master, which was my latest upgrade, my system's sounding better than I've ever heard it sound. Extremely natural, and certainly not lacking in the highs. The cymbals sound as real as everything else does.
I've upgraded to the VD Revelation Balanced Digital, which is due to arrived today, so I can't tell you about that yet. VD says the Revelation is 30% better than the Master though.
On another note, you might want to check out this ad: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablspkr&1165554447
He is supposed to have a demo to audition, and this speaker cable is half the price of the Revelation on Audiogon right now. When I put these Supra Sword speaker cables in my system, I actually feel asleep one evening and woke up, got out of my chair to flip the album over, forgetting that I sold my turntable two years ago. They have almost zero inductance, and are so fast and natural sounding, I've been upgrading my IC's and Digital Cable to try to match them!
Just a thought, if Audio Revelation has a demo pair, you have nothing to lose in trying them, and everything to gain including the $1000.00 you'd save. The VD Master digital cable does keep right up with the Supra Sword, that's why I bought the Revelation.
I would say the cables are neutral and do not exhibit an artificial sizzle in the high frequencies. As I listen to LP after LP I sometimes wonder if there is something missing, but then an LP will come on next that has extremely detailed, liquid, extended highs etc. I then realize that these cables are true to the source and when there is a situation that things don't sound extended it's the fault of the recording. I think this is what the Stereo Times reviewer was trying to say.
When something has a distinct attribute, it tends to have it on all recordings. The Revelation Series does not have any shortcomings from what I can ascertain.
I find the cymbal a point to draw you into the music. After hearing this cable you say, Man is this cable good!!
There is so much air around the cymbal, you can almost count the brush wires as hit goes acrossed the cymbal.The cymbal is not pushed back behind the stage,being clearly heard and a part of the music. You can hear the attack of the stick, or brush, the shimmer of the cymbal with a natural decay that just floats until fadding away. Not just backround noise like we have all heard before. This cable does not get congested on the top end, Muted, No way. The cable is very clean, revealing, and open from top to bottom. I believe the reviewer had a hard time, just as I am now putting into word what he was hearing. Maybe the leading HARD edge of each note that is heard in the upper end is what is rolled-off, making the music sound natural,not thin, or tinney, and unlocking some hidden timing info on the disc. The music seems more alive and jumps out at you like nothing you heard before. Long burn in time required. Hope this helps. Brian
I wrote a long response last night, but it was not posted for some reason. You'll be fine!
I've tried the Supra Swords and will say they are an excellent cable for the price. I preferred the CRL Silver (with Bochinno spades) instead though at half the price of the Swords. On the other hand, I enjoy Virtual Dyanamics cables, especially their power cords. I'd like to try their speaker cables, but can't justify the price at this point.
Ozzy, the V.D Revelation is truly a reference class cable that has bested some very highly rated cables.If you have any systems anomalies this cable will show them to you.I have found these cables to be very natural and extended in all the freq.ranges.The new Genesis cable is in a class by itself and may be the most natural dynamic cable in the world.It brings out huge images and offers dynamics that are truly staggering, keep in mind that this cable is not for the faint of heart since it is 6 gauge and very heavy( my 2metre Xlr weighs 25 lbs for the two cables !!)If you can buy some used Rev cables then you are getting a huge bargain for the price to performance level. Take care Dennis
I've got a Bi-wire set of Revelations on the living room floor. Never heard them yet because I broke a speaker binding post when I tried to install them. Yes they are stiff but I think everything will be OK when I get in the mindset that they can be patiently bent into shape to fit.
The balanced Revelation ICs are superb. Would like to try the digital cables and PCs as well.
Thank you all for the great opinions and comments.
Your replys mean more to me than any paid reviewer remarks.
The stiffness of the cable is a real concern. I need a 10 foot bi-wire set, and one speaker is much closer to the Amp than the other. Broken Speaker Posts !!! Yikes!!!
I also agree that since there is a new version about to come out I should be able to find a set at a great price. But,I am having trouble.
711, got any extra's laying around ?
Oz, Sold em all, so solly!!!
In all fairness, I knew these cables were stiff before I bought them. But having never dealt with such a stiff cable I just wasn't in the proper mindset to work with them. Also, the speaker terminals were recessed quite a bit into the speaker cabinet which was prevoiusly not a problem because I used bananas. I'm in the process of replacing the terminals and I've eliminated the recess. One speaker is finished and I'm waiting for a part to finish the other.
I'm sure all this hassle will pay off as the direct gold plated copper Cardas terminals I'm installing are superior to the stock terminals.
BTW - I forgot to mention that I use a set of Virtual Dynamics Master jumper cables on my speakers. They are about 12" in length with spades and magnets. Trying to pry them apart was a bit of a challenge, but bending them to fit on my binding posts was less of one. The sonic improvement was more than worth it though.
I had a pair of VD revs on demo, back to back with Kubala Sonsna Emotions and thought the highs were excellent. I could not get them to image properly, plus they were so physically inflexible I could not live with them, that said they were very, very good cables.
I ordered a 10 foot bi-wire pair. 3-4 weeks for delivery.
Question : Since one speaker will be much closer to my Amp than the other, is ther any suggestions as to how to configure that cable?
I thought that VD said to keep it in a circular pattern, but that was always a no-no. And, based on the comments of the cables stiffness, is that even possible ?
Ozzy, the speaker cables are siff but it helps if you map out the spot where you think the cables will go.You then place the cables roughly and start ajusting the ends of the cable to your equipment so that when you go to hook it up,only small bends are necessary.VD. cables do not suffer from typical cable interactions since they are shielded so well,and they ship in a cicular box anyway,so a circle may work for you!I have worked with many a pair and do find them challenging (especially the 6 gauge)but with patience and determination you will recieve a revelation once they are installed.Congats on a great cable and if you find these good,beware that the i/c's and p/c's are even better.Hope this helps and if you need a virtual hand please let me know-cheers Dennis
Thank you Dennis.
I have a VD Master Power cord of recent vintage that I was going to try with my Pass Amp.
I also have a Shunyata Annaconnda, and a Purist Dominus C to try.
If the VD Power cord proves to have possibilities, next on the list will then be a Revelation Power cord
I found the Virtual Dynamics powercords work best on digital sources. This was confirmed this weekend at RMAF as Rick said the biggest impact would be on the digital (transport, CDP, or DAC) source, preamp, and amp in that order. I like the Nite II, but the Master took it up a notch. Now I had a chance to see the new versions of the PCs and can say the Revalation and Genesis are beasts. They could be classified as weapons with the brass and magnets that are part of the construction. Overall I had a great time at the Virtual Dynamics/Star Technologies room. The synergies between the two companies is amazing. Not to mention the new venture Rick is into with solid state amps and Star Technology Caravelle speakers. The sound was some of the best at the show.
So you dont think the VD Master Power cord would be good powering an Amp?
I have used the VD Master power cord (20Amp version) to power my Hydra 8 in which all my digital is plugged into it, including my Sony 60" Widescreen.
I must say the picture is the best using the VD Master as the main cord , so you you are probably right its best used on digital.
I still will try it on my Amp when I get the Rev speaker cables , what the heck.
Thanks for the info.
Ozzy, in my system the Master did not work that well on my amp. I did use it on my RSA Haley power conditioner and liked the results better. However, I just put a Oyaide Tunami GPX power cord on that power conditioner as an experiment and thought that it was better than the Master. So that is how the Master got on my DAC, where I think it has performed with the best results.
You may get different results on the amp so you're right, no risk in trying it there. If the speaker cables are anything like the VD jumpers I have I think you're going to like the results.
Well,I received the Revelation speaker cables the week of Thanksgiving.
I was actually sent the Revelation 2.0 ,the newer version.
I put the cables on my Audiodharma Cable cooker for another week before trying them.
The install was a task, but with the good advise from you guys I was able to prebend in place.
Really not that big of a deal.
I too have recessed speaker terminals. I found that Cardas makes an excellent spade/bananan adapter that greatly helped that hookup.
When I first tried them them , I thought the upper frequencies were limited, Oh know,just what I feared!
But now that they have been playing music thru them for about 50 hours that is no longer a concern. They continue to improve.
So, even at this point they are keepers.
There is a sound quality that is different from all my other cable trials .
Perhaps its the dynamics that are different.I find myself singing more (scares the dog).
I will continue ...
Merry Christmas !!!
The last Virtual Dynamics cable thread about the Genesis was *removed* for reasons unknown, will this one remain ?
Enjoy your cables Ozzy, they get better after more playing time and settling in !
in the same vein, Frankpiet had a thread over in the digital forum comparing the latest Wadia CDP to other very highly acclaimed hi-end CDPs. The webmaster did not like how the other CDPs failed so miserably & that thread was also removed!!!
Being a 5 year veteran (non-dealer), I had the impression we were here to converse and compare equipment as real world users ?
I have a 10' pair of bi-wire Revelation speaker cables, also with 1 speaker close to the amp. I have coiled that pair and have experienced no adverse sonics that I can hear. In addition, I would caution you not to be too quick to come to judgement on these cables, i.e. what they do or don't do. What I discovered, confirming what I had been told, was that they take quite a while to fully break-in, changing at 100, 200, 500 and 800+ hours. Mine did change in some not-so subtle ways at approximately each of these mileposts. DO NOT BE CONCERNED - HAVE PATIENCE. After they hit about 800 hours, it was as if some sort of final VEIL was lifted and the music in my system sounds like a live performance, regardless of the type of music, as long as its pretty well recorded. In fact, at times it almost sounds BETTER than live. Yes, the cables are THAT good, and when fully broken in are just amazing. They reveal background instruments and other sonic cues better than any other speaker cables I have ever heard. Simply put, they get out of the way of the music - a commendable trait, IMHO. Enjoy...
It's really a stretch to suggest that Audiogon moderators remove threads because one particular product is preferred to another.
Unless of course the moderator is Oliver Stone in which case all bets are off and the threads are most definitely controlled by the advertisers through subliminal telepathic messages on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays between 2AM and 5PM.
800+ break-in hours is over 33 days, I believe that.
You realize how musical your equipment really is with these cable(s) making the **connection**
The website is very imformative and explains how their technology works.
Go Rick go !
Thanks for the encouragement. Wow ! 800 hours, 33 days 24/7, !!!
I play my stereo about 2 hours a day M-F and maybe 5-8 hours on weekend days. So about 22 hours a week.
At this rate, it will take me 36 weeks or 254 days !
I hope I expedited this break in time by using my Audiodharma Cable Cooker with them for a week .
Ozzy,don't you dare thake those cables from the speakers!!By moving them you are doing more harm than good,just be patient and you wil be rewarded.The REV 2.0 will not need such a huge break in time like the first REV's,the changes are going to be more refinement and vividness as well as 3-d fleshing.I feel that part of the journey is the trekking while you listen so you can inform others.Hope this helps Dennis
I was wondering were that last VD thread was?? I did inquire about the Genesis cables. $24,000 for 8 foot biwire. 9K for a 1 meter interconnect. Get This!! you can get a short trial for %15 of the price of cable. Over 3 grand to hear the speaker cable. What a scam ! I thought I was buying a timeshare from a used car salesman after the call
Ozzy - glad to hear you like the cables. These being heavy gauge solid core copper the 800+ hour break in is a good estimate. Besides VD cables, my custom amp and preamp used solid core copper and the break in on those was a good 500 hours. Well worth the time though.
Snook2,40,000 cd front ends,160,000 Wavac amps,170,000 Wilson speakers,45,000 preamps.I suspect that this is true free enterprise and is the American way!Sunny cables are over 100,000 for a set of their cables and there is no in home demo that I know of!And the timeshare also doesn't allow you to take it home!Take care Dennis
Snook, maybe your tire kicking was sniffed out and properly dismissed!
I have received nothing but thoughtful and very forthright service from my many interactions with Virtual Dynamics. (albeit with much lower priced cabling)
Though the pricing is substantial, I can understand the restock/trial expense. Once used, Cabling takes a huge hit in value (but we all know that).
Distortion, I never answered that thread just interested in why I couldn't find it. I am highly interested in getting the cable but that kind of pitch makes one suspect. I was also told that if I acted for purchase in 24 hours I could get a better deal. He never did give a true price. Inquiries were for the Revelation 2.0 and the genesis. Should buying a cable be this difficult?
You're right it shouldn't be difficult. The last time I spoke with them (VD that is) they seemed to be willing to make some "act now" deals. Which, IMO, is better than a "take it or leave it deal."
I can understand your suspicion. However, poor sales technique does not make for a poor product. I do agree with you.. I don't like "hard closer" sales pitches either. On the other hand, a discount on the product to get the customer to make a move it not such a bad idea.
Steve at GNSC is a VD dealer. Shoot him a call, I'm sure you could work something out.
Rja, I'm not sure what GNSC is? I'll check with VD again. I think they were just a bit aggressive when found the price level of my system.
GNSC=Great Northern Sound Company. They do a lot of mods especially on Wadias but are also a dealer for Virtual Dynamics products. I have dealt with them quite a few times and have always been satisfied so I suggested contacting them with your VD needs.
OR, you could just try to talk to Rick at VD. I find it pretty hard to believe it was him "pressuring" you to buy something. That's not at ALL his style. I have had nothing but very pleasant, straightforward dealings with him and am very happy with all of my purchases. You might get the name of the person you talked to (presuming it wasn't Rick) and talk to Rick about your call. I'm sure he is probably not aware of the situation and would be grateful for your input..
Like the great majority of manufacturers in this niche market, if you talk directly to VD they will make an effort to get their products into your system. Rick is extremely generous with his time and his knowledge; and, in my case, offered me a great deal. Right now I have three of his Master PCs, a pair of balanced Revelation ICs, and a set of Revelation speaker cables in my system. Expensive? Certainly for me. But the price we arrived at (yes, "arrived at" - though I haven't committed to all of the cabling) is commensurate with the quality and capability of the product...IMO (and I'm the one writing the check).
To respond to Ozzy's original query regarding the Rev speaker cables upper frequency abilities: simply outstanding. And in response to Rocc1007's notation above regarding Nirvana S-X: I've loved my S-X (okay, I could have worded that different) since I inserted it into my system five years ago.* I'm still not sure I'll let my Nirvana go but I can tell you that the Rev ICs have replaced them in my main system. The sound spectrum has expanded, as has the soundstage. Now, keep in mind that I only have about 75-100 hours on these cables at this writing so if there is a dramatic downturn in performance I will be noting that on Agon. If the moderators let me...
(*Steve Creamer at Nirvana is another of this industry's really good guys and his products are also -especially at price point - among the best!)
Rick did contact me and resolved the issue.Seems like a true professional. Which cable would be a good start in his line to showcase its abilities.
Good - I would start with Master Series, but you might also ask him...
During my search for VD (unfortunate abbreviation but at least it's not STD) I e-mailed them about 6 times. Each e-mail was answered by Rick with detailed opinions and explanations. Can't ask for much better communication than that. Yes, the VDs are on the pricey side but you gets what you pay for. At least that's been my experience with the Revelation ICs And speaker cabels I'm using.
My only word of caution is that they are stiff and heavy. Once you get rid of the flexible cable paradigm and think of them as bendable conduits everything falls into place. BTW: They do need a very long break-in time so the longer you can get VD to cook the cables before they send them to you the better.
Rick, and many in his staff can tell you how each series of cables will sound. They can tell you what to expect from one series to another, how they sound different from each other. Believe what they tell you. Each time I have upgraded to the next series, they have hit the nail on the head. They know their cables. Tell them what kind of sound your wanting to hear. They will have a cable to match and then some. They explain every detail of what you will gain and hear from each cable in their line. Believe it because it is the truth.
>> 12-06-06: Snook2
>> Rick did contact me and resolved the issue.Seems like a
>> true professional.
Snook2, good to read that you have changed your mind re. V-D once you spoke to Rick.
From my personal experience with V-D you will not find a better set of guys to deal with be it Rick himself or Jeff Sutherland or Abderrahim. Working with them so far has been fun & there are very few manuf in the audio biz that I can say that for.
>> Which cable would be a good start in his line to
>> showcase its abilities.
Every cable in his line-up starting from the humble Power3 to the mighty Genesis show-cases his technology & its abilities.
>> 12-06-06: Fplanner2000
>> Good - I would start with Master Series, but you might
>> also ask him...
If I may be so bold as to say - Snook2 you are mingling in company that has very d-e-e-p pockets. I know that I do not belong in this league (wish I did!).
I just started out with V-D cables & I would, from my personal experience, heartily recommend that you begin with the David 2.0 series.
As Brouch & others before me have commented, V-D personnel know their product very well.
If you talk with any of the people at V-D, they will urge you to cable your entire system w/ V-D & hence spend your allocated budget on a lower model rather than spend all of your budget on a higher-end model. I.E. they'd be happier (& trust me, you would too!) if you wired your whole system with David 2.0 rather than 1 component with a Master 3.0. I have benefitted from this advice & I think you will too.
If you have more money to spend, go up 1 rung to the Nite 3.0. In the V-D line-up, they are very good value for money. (Remember, I said "in the V-D line-up"!).
After speaking to Rick Schultz I did take the turn and will be re cabling my whole system with the new master series. His reasoning made a lot of sense in doing the whole system. I certainly hope he is correct. You will hear my results in a few weeks
My Revelation Speaker Cables now have a 100 hours of music playing thru them. (I had them on my cable cooker for 5 days prior to playing music).
I must say all the qualities that I was hoping for are in this cable. So far I am very pleased with my choice.
By the way , I believe there is huge synergy with VD and Purist Dominus Ferox C Power cables.
I will try to explain this ...
I linked together a Purist Dominus Ferox C power cable (with an adapter)into a 20A VD Master power cable (Dont ask why I thought of doing this)
I then plugged that combo into my Hydra 8.
My Sony LCD and other digital equipment are plugged into the Hydra 8.
With this combo VD/Purist the picture quality with my Sony LCD became the best I have ever seen !!!
I mean the colors were vibrant and the picture had more detail, amazing!.
Using just the VD or the Purist alone into the Hydra were no where close to the quality of using them linked together.
So, if its excellent for Video, I am mix and matching with the VD/Purist in my Audio with great results.
I am using a 20A VD Master into my Hydra 8. From my Hydra 8 to my APL 3910 is a Purist Dominus C power cord.
From APL to my Amp is a Balanced Purist Dominus C interconnect.
My speaker cables are now the new VD Revelation 2 Bi-wire and I have just ordered a Purist Anniversary Power cord for my Amp.
VD and Purist they work great together !!!
I discovered that cooking my Revelation cables didn't do very much at all. Whatever "good" was done was probably mostly undone when I installed them into my system. They really need to "settle in" with your equipment for a while.
Also, FYI, I have my APL 3910 (now in Alex's hands for repair/upgrade)connected to my preamp using Revelation Signature ICs I got from Rick a while back. This is arguably the most important cabling in my system, coming directly from the source, and I found it REALLY opened up the 3910. Its something you might consider trying to your amp to see if you hear a difference, especially as your speaker cables break in. I was amazed......
Snook2: Congratulations! You have fast-tracked some of the VD learning curve by starting at the Master level and I'm sure you will be very happy with your decision, especially as the cables break in. Do not be surprised if you hear new nuances and sounds out of Cd's you thought you knew pretty well. Enjoy the experience!