No Bass on a pair of Vandersteen 2Cesigs?
Well 2ce sigs could be 3 to 10 years old
2cIs 1989 to 91 2CE 1992-1998 2CESIG 2006 2CESIG2
2007 to current day.
Could it be you had a 2nd hand damaged pair which was not up to spec? something wasnt right if they didnt supply bass and should have been sent back to Vandersteen Audio for repair.
Cheers Johnnyr |
I not only checked phase of speaker connections, but tried working the woofers in good over a few days. Still, the old 2c's had much more balanced and solid bass! The newer Sig's, while better in every other way, were simply wimpy in the bass! I had a hole in the response between 63hz and 100hz that was not subtle! I mean, it was down -across that band almost 11- 12db!!! THAT'S HUGE!!! And it had nothing whatsoever to do with speaker and chair placements, cause Lord knows I tried every possible location in the room!
I highly doubt working those speakers in any longer would have made up that gap! I've been dealing with speakers and audio in general for decades, and have never heard/seen that before!
In locations where the bass was balanced and dynamic with the older models, it was simply "almost, not there" with the Sig's!
I had the client in to not only listen but to look at the measurements, first hand.
The speakers he end up with had no such problems in that same room, set up almost where the old Vandie's were! - and these were brand new in the box also.
So, I dunno what the deal was |
I had Vandy setup problems in a new house I just moved into. I followed the suggestions by Vandersteen in the owners manual that is on line for all to see. The biggest improvement after setup was the addition of drapes on the windows...more of an improvement than the rugs etc. Also, get some live plants in the corners. |
Impossible Could it have been that you didnt have the woofers hooked up in phase correctly of you didn't let the speakers run in for over 150 plus hours? A properly working pair will measure bass down -2 db at 29 HZ from the sound of it you missed something.
Cheers johnnyr |
I did a system for a guy who had 2c's in a similar sized room (with higher 10ft ceiling), and wanted to upgrade to the "Signatures" Even though the older 2's sounded just fine in that room, the Signatures had a SIZEABLE HOLE in the bass response, that I could not get rid of!
Everything - midrange, tweeter, etc - was all better with the Signatures, but the bass was AWEFUL! (and dynamics suffered accordingly). Infact, I took the Sig's out in a larger room, moved em all around, including listening positions, and never could get any descent bass response out of em. Dunno why, really.
It was strange, because the overall physical dimensions of the speakers were virtually identical (from what i could see) - and yet the response curve of both speaker models was VERY different.
We ended up going with those orb full range things. |
Vandersteen 2 series will work better than you could all believe in this room although the bigger room would be best.
In small rooms A simple Vandersteen High pass
installed in front of the amp is the solution.
Just install the High pass assessment box first to see which setting works to your preference.
Johnnyr |
Kmulkey- your small room forces you to listen, pretty much, in the near field. Unfortunately, Vandies are not meant for near field listening but are meant to be listened to a minimum of 8, 9 or 10 feet away. The extra distance allows the sound from all the drivers to arrive at the listening position at the same time and in phase. That is the basic design concept for the Vandies, 2s, 3s, 5s, even the Quattro.
Russ |
I had 2ci's and they really sounded best far from any walls (3 feet or more away). If you want to stick to the smaller room, see about trading the 2's for smaller vandy's. This is one time to downsize. Otherwise, room treatments, lots of them may make the room sound bigger. |
I would try putting the speakers with their backs to the solid long wall firing towards the balcony railing. I would place them about 4ft out into the room, 9ft apart, and put the listening chair just in front of the rail. That might just work!
A room doesn't have to be sealed to work well, don't worry so much about the openings except they do affect bass response and can cause an 'imaging' imbalance if you set up speakers so one speaker is adjacent to a wall and the other is adjacent to an 'open space' (there is another thread up right now on that issue.
FWIW I personally prefer the sound of speakers located on a short wall when ever possible. The sound seems more resonant/warm/natural, and on a long wall it has sounded cleaner/cooler/more clinical. But it might not be so in you home so give each wall (or open space). |
Thank you. I truly appreciate the feedback.
I do have one other option which is the main floor living room. I'm single no WAF to consider.
The dimensions are about 13W X 15L X 9H, but it's not completely sealed at one end and at one corner.
It has one long wall and opposite that is a railing to the downstairs, where the current listening room is.
If I put the rack and speakers along the railing, that would give me over 8' behind the speakers, and at least 3' on side of each speaker.
Or does it make more sense to put the speakers opposite the railing, on the long wall and a couple of feet from the wall?
The short walls are 13' and 8', as that is where the hallway is.
Thanks again. |
Agree with Stevecham also. Check my system page for pics of the Aurelex products. They can be found at Guitar Center stores. They are good for first reflection points and not too pricey.
I owned a pair of the 2CE sigs and had them in a room that was about 10x11. I could never get them to sound their best. You need to have some space between the listening position and the speakers to get proper driver integration. In the small space I much preferred the 1Cs over their big brother. Good luck. |
If you check my systems page my room is challenging as well
Adding Gik Panels and Tri traps made a significant difference.
Check them out you won't be dissapointed |
Stevecham is right on. I recommend checking out GIK Acoustics for affordable treatment solutions. |
I'm a former 2Ce sig owner; currently own 1Cs.
Don't know how much bass you have or want but if you put two stacked Lenrd bass traps (Aurelex), in each corner behind your 2Ces, you will improve the imaging and the bass clarity because there will some absorption and you will minimize phase cancellations. Also, an absorptive panel on each sidewall where, if you were sitting in your listening position and you had mirrors on the side walls such that you could see the speakers in each side refelction, at that wall position, such absorptive panels will minimize wall reflections so that you get more direct sound from your speakers, in essence, widening the soundstage and allowing you to hear much more of the musical content, detail, timbre and imaging. At least this is how I would and have approached smaller listening environments with success. |
You have a major issue with a room that size. It is tough to do anything excet listen in the nearfield, which it soulds like you are already doing. Can you get your speakers out a bit more from the back wall and move your listening chair back, maintaining the triangle ratios?
Bare walls is a major problem as well. Time to get up some diffusive and or absorbent materiels, especially on the side walls.
Lastly, try toeing in your speakers until the axis cross in front of your listening position. This will take of some of the 1st reflection problems from the side walls.
BTW, I wouldn't worry so much about the wall behind your speakers - that is a relatively minor problem compared to the others.
And, needless to say (but I will anyway) you will overdrive this room a very moderate volumes so don't expect to ever listen to loud music and enjoy it.
Hope that helps a bit. |
