The M5 is a sick amp. Sounds as good or better than any of the under 40k amps I've heard with Quatro's. The HRS platforms can't be beat. I'm going to be putting in a order for the entry one for my Server/DAC.
As for putting anything under any Steen, PLEASE keep in mind your rake. You have to make an adjustment for anything you put under them. I have two 3" pieces of granite that Richard told me to use. I have friends who are using the single slab 1.5" pieces. I need 4 washers for the 3" and the 1.5 needs 2 more per speaker. I'd defiantly do the measurements to reset afterwards as rake is so important to Vandersteen's.
For most people I'd strongly recommend the granite approach before going against the design and decoupling, but that's just me. I"m glad that it's working for you as that's the ONLY person you need to make happy. |
Well, probably better to start a new one. |
Hi all. Wanted to revive this thread. I still have the Quatro Wood (non-CT) but the upstream has evolved into higher end Pass Labs gear. I use a Pass Labs XP-27 phono - XP-22 Pre and the good ol XA 30.5 to power the Quatro. Balanced M5 boxes.
Two things recently elevated the performance of the Vandersteen's in my room. First was the addition of Isoacoustic Gaia I footers. I was pretty skeptical about using these as Vandersteen designs to couple the speakers to the floor. These footers are supposed to decouple. But I felt is was worth trying because the speakers are positioned on a suspended wooden floor above a storage area in my house. I had to use the more expensive Gaia I because the 110 lb Quatro has to be supported with just 3 footers. Also, I had to buy 8 not 6 footers. It was not difficult to maintain the appropriate tilt angle by adjusting the footers. Be aware that the rear spike threads are different than the front. After many weeks of use, I think they are a significant improvement. The quality of the imaging and the tonal richness of the midrange expanded to my ears. More palpable presence in the room, better separation of instruments so that you can hear into the recording better. The bass quality changed almost like adjusting the Q. The bass may be a little less high impact and certainly less is transmitted into the floor, but overall bass better integrated into the music.
The second change was the addition of an HRS platform under the Pass XA 30.5. This is the only component of the system that is near the speakers and in the high acoustic energy zone. Improvements in detail and clarity were not subtle. Very impressed!
So, fellow audiogoners, what might be the next steps for me? I hear good things about Vandersteen M5 HPA mono's. This would eliminate the M5 boxes and the Pass XA 30.5. Anyone with experience want to share? I would also consider updating to the Quatro CT if that would be a similar jump in performance. Going to have to try both of those in my room sometime this summer. |
I am using and loving the WEL balance into the Ayre and the CAstelrock speaker cables. I love the tonality and neutrality of the AQ cables. I've tried others in teh system and not liked them. I will be selling my AQ Niagara 1m cables and my 1.5 M Water cables I think. |
On to cables....
i mostly use AudioQuest
Everything from King Cobra RCA in my Vintage MAC / Apogee system to WBY and EagleEye in the Reference
i have some shotgun type 6 with vintage spades I may use with the Treo as I plan to use my 1961 MC240 ( very highly modified ) as an initial baseline, maybe move to a DBS cable ..... we shall see....
with the Clear day return, that has me thinking but I doubt that includes vintage spades at amp end ????
i know call and find out
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Ya
nothing bad to say about any other Audio company....
250 K Model 2 and something like 37 years later and RV still works 1/2 day most Saturday.....
IMO, he and his family business are “ what’s right and good about entrepreneurial America” .... and doing it mostly here with USA manufacturing in California ( wow ! )
His team is building a set of Treo CT for me right now with some very wild Maple ambrosia veneer and for what I think is an amazingly low upcharge...
freaking cool
an unabashed fan and supporter
jim
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I too am a fan of AQ. I’ve been using Mont Blanc, Volcano and now Everest as loudspeaker cables and I’m simply amazed as they sound terrific. I’ve also used Panther, Sky, WBY and WEL as interconnect cables. I feel that the WBYs and the WELs are as hi-end as hi-end can be. To me AQ is all about balance... They seem to match easy and offer astounding performance.
P.S. The WEL interconnect has terrific density and texture, world class punch, the blackest background, amazing tonal richness and dynamics to die for. It's just... rock solid! |
...and the world turns.....
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Interesting about your Ayre cable since it's just a rebadged Clear. They now have the Clear Ulta or something like that. I was told to check that out.
What was it about the WEL that you didn't like? I was floored when I installed it. I have been using Niagara for a few years and have had Sky and WBY I think they call it, but this Horizon/WEL just does everything so much better. I've had the Nordost Odin, Transparent, MIT 350 wired interconnects (their top wire along with the 770 ref speaker cables that I owned for many years). I have a WW toslink and love it as it's the only one I know that uses really corning glass and not plastic fibers. I have had their 7 series interconnect in and it was too bright for me. Very interesting. |
Generally Audioquest works well for me. I like Sky/Everest, the WEL worked far less well in my system. Although I haven't had Cardas Clear in my system, all the others were a significant downgrade in including the Ayre line (I have all Ayre electronics) Wireworld was wonderful...almost indistinguishable from ClearDay, except for an additional sense of ease....but you'd have to A/B them both to appreciate the top Wireworld.
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I drive nearly 3 hours to go to Johnny's in NJ just like you guys, lol. He's the most fair person I've ever met in audio. He totally undersells.
As for cables, I've tried so many of the main stream as well as many of the boutique and handmade DIY ones. I am biased to AQ because that's what Richard uses in his builds and what he personally voices them with. IT just made sense to me. I have not looked back and continue to end up upgrading within that line. I just haven't found another cable that is as neutral with these speakers. I've had the Nordost Odin's in and the AQ 'WEL" soundly hammered them. Odin's were way too hot on top. Not coherent and just not natural in MY system to MY ears. Audence and even Cardas. Ayre uses Cardas, but I felt the Niagara's I was using at the time was just more coherent from top to bottom.
I haven't heard the Clear, but I'm glad that you are enjoying them. I think if I were you, I'd ask Johnny to borrow the 88's and see for yourself. :) |
Tim,
I have no experience with any of the Rocket series cables. So I just don’t know. The Earth series cables i had been using (Volcano for Mid/Treble and Caldera for Bass) served me well for a long time. The mid bass once I got the Treo CTs was too thick and heavy thus obscuring details in the mid/treble that I wanted to hear. The Clear Days solved that problem for me.
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Phil,
Do you feel the Clear Day speaker cables are better than Audioquest's Rocket 88's?
Tim |
@stringreen I bought my Treo CTs from John Rutan at Audio Connection as well. He can really talk audio and knows all about Vandersteen's line. He correctly predicted that I would likely be unhappy with the speaker cables I had been using with my 3A Signatures. It took me a while to come around to it but he was right. After upgrading to the silver Clear Day's I'm finally realizing all that the Treo CTs are capable of. |
Besides excellent sound quality, I finally took the Vandersteen plunge after all these years. A large part of my consideration for them was their excellent customer care and their longevity in the industry. We are all aware of buying what was thought to be great products only to have the manufacturer go belly up in 3 to 4 years. Any repair or advice disappears not to mention resale value goes down the toilet. Not to many manufacturers will have the "main man" on line when you have a problem or need service. That's what Richard Vandersteen does..... |
Vandersteen is a prince in his treating of his customers. I bought my Vandersteen 5A's in New Jersey (at Audio Connection..absolutely the best in retail audio...knows everything and is very fair)....moved to Arizona, and when Richard V. found out about it, he personally took charge and set up my speakers in my new home. Just recently I thought I cooked 2 of my drivers...sent them to Vandersteen who returned them (one needed repair, one didn't). Wonderful support and care.
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I've had three different Vandersteen pairs in my main rig. Started the hifi journey with a pair of 2ci's in the early 90's, then went to a pair of kit speakers (North Creek), then to a 5A's (which were the only Vandy's I could never get to sound right), to Legacy Focus SE (which were pretty great) and then to Quatro Wood's Sigs. Have to say that the Quatro Woods are my favorite and I plan to keep throwing music at them for many years. |
I've owned various Vandys for the last 30 or so years. Every pair reproduced music rather than "hifi". RV has always gotten it, it's just that over the years he has refined his basic transducer concept to make his newer offerings all the more musically satisfying.
I've heard other speaker brands produce fine sounding "hifi" and enjoyed listening through them. When I get home, it's just the music again. Kudos to Richard for understanding from the beginning but also for never resting on the laurels of his latest offerings. Imagine what new Vandys might sound like in a decade!
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Vandersteen owners unite! |
Yes. This thread feels like home to me...lol |
@mr_m You are in a real good place. Stay the course!
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CT. No worries. I have no (Tekton) dog in the fight. I have the Vandy Treo CT with the premium crossovers and a 2Wq sub soon to be two subs. I'm sure you have seen the Tekton thread (almost 2000 posts). I've never seen anything quite like the enthusiasm these guys have for the Tektons.I I mean it's gotten truly crazy. I would like to hear them, but I don't think I would give up my Vandersteens for them. |
Please don't be mad as me. I looked at a notebook I use after I listen to components and posted what I wrote. |
I believe so. Are they really huge with a ton of arrayed drivers? If so, I think they were in the price range of my Quatro's. They sounded very exciting, but their tone didn't match the VAndersteen's. I personally don't like any of the high number of driver speakers I've heard over the years. That includes those Pipedreams and variants.
I understand why folks like the Tekton's though. Like horns, they excite and many will use them with the smaller tube amps, but I personally don't like what they do to vocals and a few other things. That's when you lose some of the magic of what the SET amps can do. I do love the SET sound from mids on up. That's why I love the Vandersteen amp as he uses and SET design on top and SS where he needs the power down lower in the range.
Just a totally different speaker than what I like, but there are a lot of big name speakers out there now that are tonally off, but exciting in some part or all of the range, but sell well. That's why there are different speakers and there are always folks who love them. All is good. |
I am using ClearDay double shotgun speaker cables.....quite wonderful....better than most that I've tried. He'll send you a try out set for free... Take advantage of it. I have Vandersteen 5A's,
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Ct. Have you had the chance to listen to anybody's Tekton speakers????
Tim |
Cajun, email me and let's talk off line. I'll answer any questions for you. I'm VERY familiar with each and every variant of Quatro he has sold (mine are obviously the newest and to my ear the best sounding). His little tweeks make a nice difference. Just finished listening to some Charlie Parker and when he hits those high notes on his sax, most systems make me want to run for the hills or they are dynamic, but have no depth of the note. I just closed my eyes and melted into the solo. We can talk DAC's too as I have an Ayre QX5/20 and am VERY familiar with their Codex (a best buy IMHO). Also there are a few of the Audioquest cables that I LOVE with VAndersteens. That's what Richard uses and has for years. He builds them into his amp and speakers and is a co holder of the DBS patent if I recall correctly. [email protected] get in touch as soon as you can. |
You need to be more clear about your feelings. Did you like them or not???? Kidding, of course.
I have a pair of old, original Quatros with the powered sub and I'm wondering if it's time to upgrade the speakers or just the DAC. I think with Quicksilver V4s, I"m in good shape amp wise.
What speaker cables are you using?
Glad you're happy. |
I want to clarify something I posted. When I said 'Highly percussive' this is how it should have come across and I don't think it did: It's a highly percussive speaker. Dynamics (((aren't a strong suit))))) as I think it's one of the rare speakers on the market that does everything really good.
The dynamics are outstanding. It just does everything correctly, so it's hard to put into words (at least for me it is) how it sounds. Been listening to a lot of the Joe Bonamassa live from Carnegie Hall as I was there. It's a good recording and as my wife said, it's like we were there again. We sat about 12 rows back center stage. Perfect seats to let the sound just bloom around us. I hate music that's in my face. Just a great speaker and worth auditioning even if you heard it a few years ago. I think they are just a bit warmer sounding in the lower mids. |
LOL, YES. I got the Audi Havana Black Quatro's (he said that for the upcharge to paint, he will do any color you want).
The speakers are just beautiful to look at. They are pretty in the wood veneers that they use, but painted make them look like they are 50k speakers. Just a totally different look than the Treo's we had in here. They were cherry and stunning, but these take it to levels beyond in my humble opinion.
So much metallic flake. Sorry, but did I say how stunning they are? I'm actually going to have two drop lights installed above each of them just to show them off.
We actually installed them into the corners of the room. The sound stage is wide and deep. I thought this set up would have suck out in the middle, but it doesn't at all. It's a great way to place them up against the walls. The 11 band bass eq is amazing. Just dial in the speakers where they sound best and then do the bass eq deal and you are done. They look great tucked away and it frees up space in the room, making it look much nicer.
I don't even know where to begin on sound quality. I've listened and truly auditioned so many of the speakers from 60k down. I couldn't afford anything above the Quatro price point, but I wanted to see what and how much I was going to lose. The answer is nothing. I like these much better for musicality, pace, timing and rhythm than the Magico 3 mk 2. They are the most coherent speaker I've heard under 30k (the Vandersteen 5's are about the same in this regard). They come off to me, in my room as a point source. I'm not the only one who feels this way either. The mids are just planer fast. I don't know how else to put it. The fast mid affects EVERYTHING including bass. Folks don't alway understand that. Give me a speaker that has the best mids you can get and augment with a matching tweeter and woofer and I'll probably love the speaker. It all starts with the mids and this midrange is outstanding, but also integrated properly.
It's a highly percussive speaker. Dynamics aren't a strong suit as I think it's one of the rare speakers on the market that does everything really good. The higher up in their range you go, you just get MORE of everything, but the compromises he makes at this price point are amazing in a good way. I play them on Sunday mornings at a low level (when not using headphones) and they are clean and still dynamic. The louder you play them, the more they open up and sound better. Playing them at low levels is fine and they are not veiled etc... I THINK that's due to the design of phase and time alignment etc... You just don't get the smearing that I hear on so many of the more expensive speakers. I'm just very sensitive to that.
I use a server that was made by Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio. It's as good as any server I've had in my system and I've had some top servers in here. It's only got show recorded, high res and some 24/44 stuff. Very good recordings of all genres. I won't even bother with male, female voices....piano strikes, deep/wide/high stage....We all use the same adjectives in discussing products in audio. Honestly, everyone asks how they sound now that they are broken in and I just say that I don't fully know (yes, I can sit and list stuff), because I just sit and listen for hours more a day than previously. I loved my Treo's, but to have true bass in my room (I lose a lot of bass due to it being loft layout) means everything. There is finally a foundation to everything. I"m hearing sounds like Tympani's or stand up bass that I wasn't getting previously. I realize how much small little sounds can make in a recording.
To sum it up, I guess I'd have to say that I never thought I could get 50k sound on my budget. I think what I appreciate about VAndersteens' in general is that they sound even better with better components. Not just a little, but a lot. I could easily run these with the top Ayre or D'agastino or Boulder electronics (or Jadis etc..) and it would be worth it. I put an Audioquest Horizon, balanced interconnect (it's the same thing as their top WEL/solid silver) and it just warmed it up and gave me more of everything. Crazy who an upgrade that was. I've heard the Paradigm 9H which is an active sub also and I honestly wouldn't trade for it. Not even close. There is a veiling that the Quatro doesn't have. I have heard some poor recordings on these and you can hear why it's poor, lol.
I feel that it's the sweet spot in the Vandersteen line. The Treo has plenty of bass, but it's not tunable and doesn't move as much air as the Quatro. The 5's are outstanding in their own right and the carbon mids with aluminum bass drivers makes a huge difference also. I feel the 5's are closer to the 7's in sound and the Quatro's are very close to the 5's, but move less air (physic's aren't changing).
All in all, I got much more than I expected and couldn't be happier. I'm one of those who usually keeps his components for many years and I'll be shocked if I sell these anytime soon. They'd have to change the line and make a speaker near this price range for that to happen and I don't see that anytime soon. Just a GREAT SPEAKER. Everyone I've had in here has said the same thing. |
Ctsooner:
Did you ever get the speakers? Review???? |
The Pass is a fine amp for the Quatro's. I personally like the Ayre Ref amp better as there is a ton of synergy, but that's me.
I own the same integrated, AX5/TWenty, and it will sound a spec better after about 15 minutes or so, but I won't leave it on all the time. If you don't have over 400 hours on that input (each input must be broken in separately and you want to really beak each input in using the listening volume level that you use normally), then it may also be part of breaking in. I know that the time of sounding it's best shorted considerably once I was all broken in. Once I get it back from Ayre with the Vandersteen cross over installed, I'm sure I'll need to run them for many hours to break them in too, but since I need to break in the new Quatro's, it's not a big deal, lol.
I personally hate the break in time. I'd rather just do a plug and play from day one. Guess we'd have to pay for the hours of break in at the factory. I know Vandersteen does a pretty good job of breaking in that midrange before assembly, but you still need to break in the rest of the speaker once you get it just like anything else. With the newer and stiff components used and all the silver in the amps/electronics, it takes so much longer than it ever did.
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Thanks tomic601! I would love to listen to a set of Ayre mono locks in my system too. On the tube side, I think a pair of Atma-sphere MA-1s would be interesting to listen too as well. The quatro has low efficiency but a steady 8 ohms across the frequencies might make up for that with an OTL. Unfortunately, I think my dog might be too interested in an exposed tube amp to be safe. So for now, I'll continue to enjoy the Pass.
-Karl |
@hifiman5, you were spot on. Clark Terry's album "Portraits" is an excellent recording and one of the albums I'm using to break in the speakers. I also recommend giving Eric Dolphy - "When Lights Are Low" a listen. I heard him play on one of Coltrane's live album playing the flute. Very talented. |
and BTW that Pass is a sweetheart of an amp !!!!
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Karl you would be using 200 W
not sure what the vxr is drawing when on at idle but it is 45 W in standby.
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giving the Clark Terry a listen - yes a very fine recording on many levels :-)
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I have a Pass XA-30.5. No way I'm leaving that beast on all the time! But it warms up pretty fast. |
NYC
i have the VX-R Twenty and leave it on most of the time ( vs standby ) Thrre is a difference in SQ even tho it is smaller than the pre twenty change in SQ from standby to fully warmed up. I attribute this to the old topology and thermal trac devices. The double diamond changes seem to also benefit in SQ changes from standby - even so while the twenty sounds excellent about 20 minutes in I leave it on most all the time.
cant comment to much about Twenty break in time and changes as I got my 7 at about same time.
have fun !!
that is what this is all about !!!
joy
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+1 rcprince The only time I turn off my SS amps is when I'm changing gear in the system or doing semi-annual connector cleaning. Some may argue that SS amps should be left on all the time to promote thermal stability. The side benefit is that the sound is always first rate.
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Thx. Didn't notice before and unlike other SS amps Ayre puts the ax5 to standby mode so it's never really cold. |
Most solid state amps sound better when they have been on for a while, vs. cold. There are some in this community who leave their amps on all the time for that reason. You're not imagining things, but it's not really attributable to break-in.
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Does this sound reasonable to you guys? My Ayre AX-5 Twenty (upgraded) is breaking in at the same time as my Treo CT. Like a tube amp, I'm convince the Ayre sounds better after it plays for 30 mins. Is this maybe a part of the break in process for my amp or am I just going nuts? |
First off Jay, thanks for the album tip. Streaming it on Tidal now. Sounds great. I do like Clark Terry.
Before I get to Tom, I am PUMPED beyond all belief. They should be done by the end of the week and I bet it will only take about a week to get to Johnny's and then installed. Everytime I hear them tell me about cutting and polishing the Audi Havana Black finish I get very excited to see these things. It's going to be WELL WORTH it for doing this major upgrade. No one does finishing better than Vandersteen. Some do just as good as they take the time and effort to properly cut and polish the finish, but it's all in who's painting (just like a car repair) and Richard has a GREAT painter. Those of you with painted finishes by them know this already. I will then apply three coats of a ceramic nano coating to give it that always WET look and the depth of the clear coat will come out. This is what manufacturers are now using for their show cars ;). It also takes the pencil hardness from a 3H to a 9H. More resistant to scratches etc... I"m going to pay a guy who does my cars to come do this as it's worth it to have a professional who's used to applying it do it for the BEST shine. I may even do 4 coats if it makes a difference, lol.
I know Richard constantly makes tweeks to his speakers to make them sound even better and better, so I bet these will be even better than the Quatro's that I have heard so many times in various show rooms. The last pair I heard was just so warm and inviting that I was in shock at what I was hearing in the 15k range. Just stunned at the detail etc...
Tom, I used to listen to those Apogee's with the sub/stands and liked them a lot. I"m going from the Treo with regular tweeters to the Quatro CT's. That's a HUGE change. I'lll also be working with Johnny to tune the room a bit. |
well I will have to fire up the big system and stream some Tidal this eve...
i am sure it will be shocking...
i have been going down a real analog bunny trail with my vintage system with Apogee stages..the ribbon mid / tweeter is good for sure but not match for the Vandersteen CT IMO...
Pete - so glad to hear your new stuff coming together !!!!!! you will be enthralled with PURITY and a clear water like clarity...layers of grunge removed....
..and yes Quatro CT will replace the Apogee eventually in my smaller room....
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CT, btw you can get the Clark Terry "Portraits" album in 96/24 high rez at hdtracks. You can also stream it through Tidal. |
Congratulations CT, so happy for you. Can't wait for your thoughts.
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LOL...spoke with Johnny at Audio Connections. We are setting up the install time. Ayre shipped my AX5 back after installing the cross over so I'll have that here sometime early next weeks. |
oh the humanity! oh the anticipation!
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got the call last night that my Quatro's are being dialed in and should ship any day now. |
