Vandersteen 5a or Eggleston Andra II

Firstly, as others have mentioned, I would not choose a speaker for the tweeter. Mid range is much more important. Secondly, Bob Ludwig currently uses the Andra II's - do a google on him and you will probably find that he has mastered a great deal of the music you listen to (one of the highly respected sound engineers in the industry). Speakers that are highly regarded for use in prestigious mastering studios tend to be neutral, transparent, non-fatiguing, yet dynamic and natural sounding. I do not have listening experience comparing either of these speakers but I would not hesitate to take a page out of Bob Ludwig's book and follow his choice.

I would. He used to use wilson's. very different.

What is so wrong with Wilson's are they weird too?

mastering peopole have some weird systems. Doug sax has a system I can;t make any sense out of.

I agree that the audio industry has it's share of eccentrics.

However, are you suggesting that you don't trust/respect the choices of successful mastering engineers that are demanded by top artists and top producers for their critical listening/mastering skills?

Are you suggesting that when they master CD's/SACD's on these speakers that you can dramatically improve on the sound they produce by using another speaker at home?

What would you recommend that is so much better than Bob Ludwig's tailored $100,000 Eggelston Ivy's?

If you say that their taste is for too detailed and precise of a presentation and that you prefer a laid back warm colored sound ....then I understand completely and you have a good point.

Mothra,

I was intrigued by you "weird" and Wilsons comment and tried to find out what other weird speakers Bob Ludwig might have used. I found nothing on Wilsons, although it is hardly suprising that he would indeed like high end Wilsons. Why not?

Here is what I did find;

Bob Ludwig Nov 25 1997, 3:00 am show options
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: "Bob Ludwig" - Find messages by this author
Date: 1997/11/25
Subject: Re: Opinions Wanted Re: ATC20 & ATC50 Active Monitors
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse

Dear Gregory,

I use the ATC50s at home and I like them a lot.
At our studio we use the ATC100s (a larger more rugged version) in
our editing/CD preparation room. We use a sub-woofer with the ATC
100s in the studio, at home I haven't felt the need for one.
Generally, I found the ATC 50s a more perfectly balanced speaker, but
the 100's have withstood hour after hour of use in a professional
edit room with no component replacement needed in almost 5 years.
Clients like them a lot, too.

Bob Ludwig
President
Gateway Mastering Studios, Inc

Note that this is an old thread before he switched to Eggleston Ivy's at Gateway Mastering. I think he has also used DunTech Sovereigns in the past but I am not sure.

Anyway, hardly suprising that Bob has used a lot of well known respected speakers after all he must use speakers nearly 8 hours a day five days a week. On Artists Direct website Bob has over two thousands credits as audio engineer.

Does it mean that Bob's Ivys are the absolute best or his Andra II surround system is the ultimate, in another league. No I don't think so...but these systems would be damn good choices for anyone and obviously, if not in another league at least up there with the very best; I suspect that all Bob's choices past and present are pretty solid.

Mothra,

Ok. I accept that everyone has different tastes and reknown mastering engineers may have odd taste too. Good point. Folllowing one engineer or another may not lead to satisfaction. What do you think is a great speaker then? What is actually in another league? It definitely sounds like you have benefited from hearing many different setups and may be in good position to comment...what was the best or most neutral (or to your liking)?

I take it you don't like Wilsons because you prefer neutral sounding speakers and I agree again with you that they often have a bit of a boost in the bass, which many people like (meaning I don't necessarily see it as a weakness - they are still great speakers).

MOthra,

Dunlavy sc-IV's (with upgraded tweeter), B&W 801 series 2 limited editions with north creeks crossovers, spendor sc-100's, quad esl-57's, B&W matrix 805's.

Awesome I am very impressed by your choices. You have some classics. Perhaps one day you will post a few pics....I will be drooling!!!. Youu are in another league from me.

I agree with you that second hand Dunlavy's are great value rather than chasing the latest and greatest.

I agree on your Wilson comments (although I am reticent to criticse the bass response because they are so successful - obviously people like them!) On the Andras ( a bit bass light ) I can understand that you might want a sub with these. (I use a 15" sub with my ATC100s as they roll off in the lowermost octave below 35Hz and it seems you can never have too much clean tight bass power at elevated listening levels -provided it is all critically damped - I dislike mushy boominess in the bass but love it when I can clearly discern a bass guitar riff from behind a close-miked kick drum)

I suspect you may not like ATC as you mentioned Doug Sax has a system you don't understand (or is it his brother's designed tube based EQ setup that you struggle with?). No problem, some people say ATC's make their ears bleed and I have no problem with that as they are quite forward sounding in the mid range and certainly play so loud the music can always be made to eventually sound harsh (at extremes), furthermore, everyone is entitled to their personal preference. Frankly, I could live with your preferences/taste too but then again who is "Shadorne"...I am a complete nobody in audio compared to someone like Bob Ludwig. (Sorry but I respect many of these engineers - even the weird ones!)

Dev,

Shadorne, you mentioned in your thread the Andra's are "a bit bass light".

Actually that was supposed to be paraphrasing Mothra ( my fault as I was not clear). I never actually said anything about the Vandy's (I think they are great too) or intended to imply anything about the bass of the Eggleston Andra II's for that matter. My only comment was to throw out that Bob Ludwig had chosen Andra II's for his surround system and Eggleston Ivy's for his main studio two channel monitors - so they must be darn good!!

I guess I respected Bob's choice even if he made the tragic terrible mistake of ditching his ATC 100's after only 7 years of mastering use, how could he possibly do such a thing!!!(LOL, just making fun here)

However, my respect has turned to a slight bit of concern when I dug deeper, partly because of Mothra's "weird" comments. I guess I felt there was something Mothra knew but was not comfortable saying in these forums ("weird" is a pretty strong comment in my book)

Further research (today) indicates that Bob Ludwig's choice of Ivy's may have been unduely influenced by the "attention" that he received from William Eggleston - see this report. As you can see other creditors to Eggleston were not very happy about time and money being devoted to such an esoteric project (a speaker with 23 drivers costing $100,000, partly designed by an a mastering engineer who does not make speakers for a living and apparently, like most Eggleston projects until that point, likely running at a loss) Interestingly, you will also see that a favorable "Stereophile review" was believed to have made a huge impact on sales of a previously not so well known speaker manufacturer. I leave readers to make your own judgement whether Bob should have ditched his ATC's ( again just joking...it is OK by me to hate ATC's!!).

As for PMC's, indeed yes they have a great reputation too. Generally less forward in mid range and a lot more bass is how I would describe them versus ATC; they are an excellent choice and I would highly recomend them too (to those finding ATC's make their ears bleed but want something dynamic...LOL).

Now I think that this thread has well and truely become a drunken diatribe....I think I'll stop there. Apologies to all those who found this boring and a waste of time - fortunately you can simply ignore it, as the originator of this thread appears to have done ;-)