Vandersteen 5?

Hi All,

A relatively local shop has a used pair of Vandersteen 5s for sale. I was originally in the market for Nautilus 803s but these Vandersteens are just barely in the price range. I am guessing that they are older (I have no idea how old yet). The upgrade to Vandersteen 5a is way out of my price range. Would the original 5s be a nice speaker? Will I need to put much money into mantaining them (e.g., replace the subwoofer powersupply or replace the crossover's batteries)?

I have a Krell 400xi, VPI Scout, ZYX Yatra, Innersound Phono, a 14 x 16 dedicated music room where I usually play classic rock. My favorite stuff was a Class A Krell / Nautilus 802 setup that a friend owned (out of my price range). I am upgrading from Matrix 802s.


The 5's are very nice indeed. To check to hear if the sub amp is working, plug it in and you should hear a low pitched "Woomp". There are batteries in the attached silver boxes, and in the crossovers themselves, but are inexpensive (though a pain in the behind) to replace. You should really send the components back to Vandersteen, and I think its about 40 or 50 dollars to replace all the batteries. Download the instructions from Vandersteens Website.
Ask the owner if you can open up one of the M5-HP cross-overs (just 4 screws on the side with the label). If they have the Duracell battery in them, it will have a date on it in Sharpie when they need to be sent back in and replaced. If you have the serial numbers of the Speakers, this will tell you how old the speakers are. If they are in good condition and at a reasonable price, I don't think you can go wrong with them. The sub amps just don't go bad unless they have been abused. One nice thing about the Model 5, they can be upgraded or repaired for as long as you own them. Vandersteen doesn't come out with a new model ever 6 months because of what a marketing department tells them to do. The line has been stable since forever and parts are and will be available. The tweeter in the B&W seems harsh to me and I personally would prefer the Model 5 to them. Plus most of the money in the B&Ws goes into the cabinet where most of the money in the Vandersteen goes into the drivers. Which in my minds means more of my hard earned dollars are going into the sound then into the cabinet department at B&W.
The 5's are a great speaker, and would mate well with your Krell.
If you did buy them, the first thing you should do is to replace all the batteries.
There are three inside each speaker and one inside the M5-HP, all 9 volts. Don't
just take the seller's words for it unless he has prove that batteries are still fresh.
If they aren't fresh, the 5 sounds like crap. Also, replace them with lithium
batteries. They last a lot longer.
I own a pair that I bought used. They are superb sounding with Audio Research electronics and do not require a powerful amp. But the fact that they are upgradeable is irrelevant. I would have to pay several times what I paid for the 5s to have them upgraded. If you want the 5As it's much cheaper just to buy them used. (I haven't heard the most recent 5a Carbons.) In summary, I have no desire to upgrade and I plan to keep these for a long time.
While the Vandersteen 5 are great speakers, the Krell 400xi is no where close to the musicality of the class A Krell amps. In fact 400xi is a wannabe and highly compromised. Krell wanted an entry level player which doesnt sound harsh and thats all the 400xi is. I am saying all this because you are getting into much higher league with your speakers and this amp has every potential to disappoint you.
I have never heard the Krell and the only time I heard the 5s was at a show and I was underwhelmed. However, Pani makes a very good point. High resolution transducers tend to be very revealing (by definition) of upstream deficiencies. Can you bring the Krell w you for an audition.
Doen't disgard the Krell yet. It has received some excellent reviews and is not suddenly going to sound deficient with the 5s. (I have tried some high-end but not megabucks amps with this speaker. You probably won't have any issues.) In any event, the gentlemen above are correct about trying both the amp and speakers together. But it may be a pain because you need to open up the high pass filters and set them to match the input impedence of the amp. Hopefully your local shop has already set up the subwoofers for the room and is patient.
So where are these Vandys you say? And definitely don't buy them! Just give me the address and I'll handle everything.... :-)

But seriously, these are amazing speakers. I used to have a 7-channel Vandersteen system and can attest to how wonderful a designer Richard Vandersteen is; as a person, OTOH, he's a complete dick, which is why I am a FORMER owner (sold all seven). My main concern would be that if you do run into trouble and have to deal with him you can expect him to get pissy if he feels you are abusing 'his' speakers; shenanigans like that. However, despite my personal dislike for the man, his equipment is top notch and I've even considered buying another used pair. I think that's a testament to how good the equipment is, so I don't think you'll go wrong with the 5's. must have pissed him off somehow. I have found him very pleasant and helpful.
Ljs_fin, as far as Krell and the reviews are concerned, a review is worth something only till you have not auditioned an equipment. Once you have had extensively listened to an equipment, no reviews hold nothing.

I have heard the 400xi in at least 5 different setups extensively and thats how I am able to say something about them. BTW, none of those 5 setups have the 400xi today.
Pani, I agree with you regarding the reviews but cited them because they raised no obvious defects. Regarding the audition in 5 different setups, I don't challenge what you heard for yourself but it is no useful information for anyone else because there are too many variables -- room, speaker, front-end etc. I am simply suggesting that the OP try his Krell before committing resources to another amp over something more important such setting up the room properly.
Stringreen, as always, YMMV. Actually, I'd met him twice before that episode for a Vandersteen audio event at a local retailer and actually found him to be brusque then as well. Interestingly, before he arrived the first time I asked some of the Vandy-veteran folks what he was like and, to paraphrase, the opinions I got were basically that he was an genius, but a real ass. So far, both meetings and every phone call has borne that out. However, as you noted, the dude may just not like me.

Still, I'd argue that ANY customer calling for service should never be verbally attacked. He did this to me multiple times (I wrote about it here recently with somewhat greater detail HERE ). Apparently having burned out a tweeter on one of his precious model 3's was enough to earn this sort of ire.

As I've said, wonderful product, lousy human being; but I'm glad that your experiences are better than mine. And the 5's are wonderful speakers.
I don't think people change even though it's been 7 years, so I will add my 2 cents worth- I love his designs but Mr. Vandersteen is a total prick. The man has absolutely no people skills (at least on the phone; I have never met him in person). I've talked to him at least 3 or 4 times over the years, didn't ask for him but for some reason he picked up every time. Next time if he picks up again I am going to ask to speak to one of his techs instead. 
My experiences are vastly different.
Initially Dutch brusque and moments later friendly but direct.
When we owned 3a Sig and were going to be driving near Hanford on a trip my wife called factory and requested a tour.
In his Richard way he said we dont do tours. Not a lot of frosting.
( there is an excellent reason for this )
But he invited us over to his house to listen to 7's..for something like 3 hours..... Like a kid in a candy store....spinning music we both love
He recommended a dealer (Optimal) and I bought the owners pair of 5A in Rosewood. Eventually he visited our house ( to check my setup skills ha!!!)
We now own a pair of 7 mk2 and will get the amps also.
He reaches out to me every month to talk shop, make sure I am happy and to talk about advanced manufacturing and airplanes.

Wow, Richard VAndesteen will give you as much time as you need to help you out.  He has a passion rarely seen in any business.  He is GREAT at his live events. Opinionated?  Of course he is.  Just like any great designer.  I've been blessed to meet so many Vandy owners, just like Tomic.  Richard is open minded and will listen to his customers.  It may take him time to process and come to new conclusions, but the fact it he will.  He is a large presence physically and vocally.  He has that deep voice that can be overbearing for some I believe.  That takes nothing away from him wanting everyone to be happy and love their music.  

He's also a business man who needs to make money.  Not everyone will have chemistry with each other and that's OK too.  If you purchase a pair of his speakers and need help, you should be going through your dealer first anyways, but he has the Ask Richard board on his site and that's one great resource.  He's honest as the day is long and for me, that's the most important thing.  JMHO that I feel Richard is a great person.
What did the OP do ??????