VAC Ren II, VAC Phi, or ARC Ref 3?


Finally, the two cold solder joints in one of my Rowland 7M amplifiers have been fixed. Just a simple 2 minutes soldering job at home, thanks to a kind live phone consult by Jeff himself. Now the system is back purring like a kitten.
Great say you, but. . . the problem is that now I have fallen totally prey to Upgraditis Furiosa, the most pernicious and 'wife threatening' form of Audiophilia Nervosa.
I listen mostly to classical--lots of chamber, vocal, Early Music, Baroque, Romantic, some large orchestra, lots of cello and other strings--on a system that I have lovingly put together over the last 20 years: EAD T1000, AT&T glass C-core glass wire, EAD D7000 Mk. 3, AudioQuest Quartz RCA, Audio Research LS2B, Gutwire XLR, Jeff Rowland 7M monoblocks, Cardas Golden Ref PCs on 7M, Cardas Golden Ref speakerwires, MagnePan 3A speakers.
The sound is sweet, lush, with a large if slightly unfocused soundstage, sometimes slightly veiled, somewhat soft at the bottom, can sound glorious in the midrange, good if not spectacular at the top. Much better at small ensembles than at full orchestra, where the sound stage can collapse and full strings and brass often display signs of brittleness and two-dimensionality. But, so much for self-criticism. Now what to do?
I intend to migrate towards a fully balanced system, with redbook and SACD capability and a tube linestage. I will start upgrading at the source and linestage points. The source will be an Esoteric X-01 or an upcoming APL NWO-1. But in this thread I'd like to discuss options for a new linestage. My requirements are an open and detailed, sweet sound, accurate with minimal coloration, with very good but not necessarily overwhelming macro-dynamics, an excellent three-dimensional and accurate soundstage, superior microdynamics and subtle nuance. The linestage must sound great out of the box--after breakin of course: not only after going through many cycles of NOS tubes musical chairs. All of this from a company with a stellar track record and reputation in quality, dependability and pre/post sale support. I listened to the VTL 7.5 and found it to be too soft. The BAT VK51SE sounded too dark. Then I listened at length to the VAC Ren II, which seems to embody all of my requirements. I have not heard the VAC Phi as yet, but it is in the running by inference. Nor I have listened to the ARC Ref 3, although I intend to: Ref 3 is in the running by reputation.
Suggestions? Opinions? It's your turn guys and girls!
guidocorona

Showing 8 responses by fsarc

Fplanner2000- Was your 2.0 an older unit? I just received mine about 3 weeks ago and can't imagine there is an upgrade already after waiting close to 12 weeks for it to be built. Could you describe the other "tweaks" as well? Thanks for any info you can share.
As a Phi 2.0 owner I would say it fits your requirements. There is the ultimate test of synergy with the rest of your equipment. As a Phi 220 amp owner, the Phi 2.0 was a logical choice and exceeded my expectations, bettering the linestage section of my EMM DCC2.

The Phi 2.0 is incredibly quiet- the noise floor is lower than that of the DCC2. It has the drive. bass, and dynamics of the best solid state with the sheer musicalnesss of tubes.

The Phi 2.0 will drive any known amp regardless of load. It can easily handle power amps with an input impedance of below 10K ohms so it is very flexible in that regard. It is essentially a low powered Class A1 fully balanced Triode amplifier.

The user interface is wonderful. The only disadvantage next to the Ref3 is lack of an easy to read numeric volume readout. Kevin chose not to implement his volume control with a digital readout.

Build quality and curb appeal goes to the Phi series hands down. It is absolutely stunning and pcitures do not do it justice.

When you buy a VAC piece you are also investing in Kevin's and Co fanatical attention to detail and "perfection". His customer service and the VAC product reilability are second to none.

ARC IMO introduces new components and Mark II/III versions way too quickly. I think OB already sent his Ref 3 in for a "running" prodcution change. It's only been out a few months. A guess some would consider that a good thing- in some ways it is.

The Ref3 will also offer more balanced inputs, although the Phi 2.0 can be ordered with a second set of balanced inputs using a modified connector.

The Phi 2.0 will also come with a world class phono stage for MM and MC cartridges. You can use two arms at the same time and select the cartridge with the flip of a switch. Kevin feels his phono stage will compete with ANY separate phine stage on the market- bar none.

The etched glass with the glowing VAC logo also wins me over every time I sit down to listen.

Good luck!

Sorry for typos. I'm in a rush!
Most of the preamps mentioned are state of the art and it will come down to a personal choice, and as previously mentioned, system synergy. While I love the Phi 2.0 I don't think I can it is the "best" preamp out there- we all have our own likes and dislikes. The AR Ref3 and VTL 7.5 were on my short list. The reason I went with the Phi 2.0 was for the system synergy with my Phi 220 monos- luckily it all worked out in the end.

With that said, the VAC Phi series is definitely my choice for the current state of the art in tube amplification- in my system it has no compromises that detract from being truly engaged in the music.
22K ohm would be nothing for the 2.0 Kevin told me it would drive a 600ohm load with no problems. If case you want them, the 2.0 does not offer a balance control nor a phase swtich. Design wise, the 2.0 does not invert polarity at the inputs or outputs.

I'm sorry I can't offer any comparisons to the Ren II or the ARC Ref 3. The wait time is painfully long. I ordered mine in early April and received it mid July. I just spoke to Kevin the other day and they are pretty busy- which is a good thing. I think sometimes if you get your order in during a build "run", you may have a substantially less wait time.

Kevin is very pround of his products and will not rush them until they met VAC's exacting standards. I'm not sure if you are aware of this- VAC does all the chassis work in house- right down to the smallest knobs. Pretty impressive.
From the 2.0 manual-

"The Phi Preamplifier is the world's finest audio preamplifier and an absolutely unique component. Its unusual topology, premium parts, and flexibility make it a pleasure to hear and operate. The line stage is, in effect, a small Class A1 power amplifier, capable of driving loads as low as a few hundred ohms. This is a stark contrast to normal preamplifiers, which claim a low output impedance but completely collapse when asked to deliver current.

The Phi circuit is loafing with a normal load in the 10,000 to 200,000 ohm range, delivering an effortless, musical performance. There is no loop feedback and no coupling capacitors in the line section. All active elements are triode tubes, the purest, most linear amplifying devices yet invented. Output matching is accomplished by way of superb output transformers. As a side benefit, different output grounding configurations are possible, optimizing performance into either balanced or single-ended loads, and allowing ground loops to be broken.

The optional phono stage uses triode tubes operating without loop feedback. Gain is moderately high, with a very low noise floor. Low output MC cartridges are accommodated by means of high quality matching transformers, which contribute voltage gain without noise,
resulting in detail that emerges from a remarkably dark and neutral background.

Remote volume control is implemented via a motorized mechanical device. This provides two major advantages. First, the control is completely intuitive to use. Second, we avoid the sound degradation attendant with VCAs, transistor switches, and switched resistor arrays.

The main chassis is machined from thick aluminum. The separate power supply allows e.m.f. fields, switching transients, and mechanical vibration to be isolated from the audio circuits. The high voltage supply dual choke pi filtering for extremely low noise.

The Phi 2.0 is designed not to the latest fad but to substance, for the highest possible sound quality. Time spent familiarizing yourself with this manual will be well rewarded."
Hmmm..........I see the price advantage in the Phi 2.0

-Latest circuit design-sonically better than the Ren.Sig II.
-IMO- the Phi blows it away in the looks dept.
-Built-in state of the art phono stage that is a $4000 option for the Ren Sig II.
-I wouldn't worry about the tubes. Kevin said I can leave my 2.0 on 24/7 and get a least two years of tube life.
-Better resale on Phi 2.0 The Ren Sig II is really not in production anymore, but available by special order.
-Price difference is only $2K.
-Now if you come across a used mint Ren Sig II at a substantially lower price then I would agree it is the better value.
Great write up Guidocorona! It appaears you have a terrific understanding of the nuances of all three products.

I would have loved to see you get to listen to the Phi in the mix. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before. Is the Phi more similar to the newer Ren II or the older Ren SigII?

Is the Ren SigII competitive with the Ref 3 or was it "no contest" as OB mentions? I find at this level it comes down to personal preference rather than one product being totally superior to another. While I prefer the sound of the Phi over the Emm DCC2 I can't say it's no contest. If I didn't have the Phi I could certainly live with the DCC2 direct.

Also, I'm sure if this would have made ANY difference in what you heard, but are you aware that the Rowland 302 uses the uncoventional pin 3 "hot" on its balanced inputs rather than the more common pin 2 "hot"?

In case I missed it somewhere, was this comparison done at a dealer or friend's house?

Given the great reputation of the ARC Ref II I'm not surprised you were so impressed with the Ref 3.

Best wishes on your final decision.

Frank
It would invert the signal polarity. Since it remained constant for both preamps, I'm not sure it would have changed the outcome.

In my system, the Phi definitely has the attributes you admire on the Ren II. There is also no upper glare that I can detect.

It's great you hearing these products firsthand and I appreciate your detailed analysis.

Are you located near NYC?