Using small stereo speakers with a subwoofer

I use a sub to even out room resonances which often occur in mid-bass region where most monitors start out. If you hear thicker than normal male voices on a standmounter thats often whats going on.

There's probably no way for me to be emphatic about this without coming off as just a kook (which anyone could argue I am, but that's beside the point!). But, I have been kicking around the new-speaker can myself lately. My current 3-way towers border on either not needing, or could likely benefit from, getting a sub for them - depending on my mood at the time. But, I knew I had other sonic reasons on my hands than that to consider new speaks - better soundstaging, microdynamics and resolution among them. They've been good to me for 25 years, but I feel the time to move on has come. So, I started with other floorstanders around $2-2.5k. Lots of contenders around, but none of them appeared to jump out at me. What to do? Can't jump higher than that price range and buying used has its problems, for me. Somehow or other I came across mention of an unknown (to me) speaker brand called Wavetouch Audio. They make these dinky, but fairly affordable little speakers called the Grand Tetons that use a new twist on waveguide technology (see site). But, they are said to image not just well, or well for the money, but flat out good regardless of price. But, they also are said to have unusual amounts of both macro and microdynamics, resolution in spades, musicality and, in particular here, bass response to 40hz and even usable output at 20hz - despite using only one (very dynamic, apparently) 5.25" wooofer per 12"-tall x 7.5"-wide x 9.5"-deep cabinet...! By those who've heard them, they're even described as having a good amount of slam. Will they give you room-shaking bass? Almost certainly not, but I imagine you might stand a very good chance of integrating your Vandy with them. Retail is $2500, but they are generally sold from the site much below that, these days at $1500 a pair. Due to their waveguides they cannot be made to have grills and, well, let's just say their looks are something only a mother could love. Their only real caveat is that they might be a little picky about what you feed them (very revealing Heil AMT tweeter + waveguide), so if you have a tube amp (or SS that tends to mimic tubes) then you may be in a good position to consider them (see reviews on site). I have no relationship with Wavetouch and have not yet heard them for myself, although I suspect I'll probably be pulling the trigger on them once I can afford them. Shipping is free, but he does offer to cover the cost of return shipping if you don't like them (have not seen too many audio companies offer that!). Don't mean to submit a commercial or jack the thread or anything, but when I read your OP I thought of them immediately as possibly being a piece to your puzzle. Regards. John

Update: Sorry, I forgot to mention it, but, if you can, find out the crossover point of the Vandy along with the NHT's roll-off point, then you can have some basis for generally predicting success with bass-integration. But, moving the Vandy around the room a bit to find the best integration spot without knowing the above will only go so far if there is a noticeable mismatch between the monitor's roll off and the sub's fixed crossover point. Alternatively, if the Vandy's crossover can in some way be defeated you could consider using an outboard variable crossover of some kind instead. Apart from that, you may likely need to consider getting a new sub (whether NHT's or otherwise) and selling your existing one, but a sub with a variable crossover point may be the best investment in the long run.

Also, the phase control with most subs is usually a 2-position switch (0 and 180 degrees) or sometimes a fully variable knob that will allow you to contour the subwoofer's phase with that of the monitor's simply by ear. Easy enough to learn how to do by listening as you adjust the control, usually that part does not have to be done from the listening position and can be done while standing at the sub's control. In the case of the switch, use whichever setting sounds better to you for your sub's location.

Ivan,
You just wrote a huge response selling the idea of wavetouch speakers, talking about how great they are, and then you say you haven't even heard them...really dude?

Yes, really. That's just my opinion on them so far...why, did I ask anyone to buy them?

I have to agree with Blimo.
It's one thing to say I read a great review, but to start ticking off their demensions and sound qualities. Also Ivan, take a look at Mountain High's and Quad Mans tactics , touting the speaker is better than $30,000 speakers, which is fine as long as they are upfront with their dealer and manufacturer status , which they don't .
The one thread with the four or five glowing reviews all seem suspect as well, as many of the reviews are first time posters , with zero audiogon history.

Which Vandersteen sub, and how old? There have been so many advances in powered sub technology that--if the Vandy lacks certain features--it may hold you back from putting together a good sat/sub system.

At the risk of being impertinent, why are you ditching panels in the first place? Have you heard the X.7 generation of Magnepans? I can't believe how stupid good my new 1.7s are for $2K, and the 3.7's (and upcoming 3.7i's) are reputed to be that much better.

A sat/sub system that really caught my attention (and held it throughout the demo) was a pair of B&W PM1s mated to their PV1D subwoofer. They used Classe electronics which high-passed the signal to the PM1s, expanding their dynamic range.

Toddnkaya, was unable to look up anyone by the name of Mountainman on Agon. "Quad Man" only seems to show up as Quadman, but there no posts associated with that member. The fact is, I can't recall seeing any posts about any wavetouch products by either of them...can you direct me to them? If what you say is true, I would like to see that. But, my main point is that all I Really did was direct Broadstone to the company's website (where of course there are reviews and info). I made a case for why I considered them to be relevant to Broadstone's situ largely by sticking to the specs and what PEOPLE WHO'VE HEARD THEM have already said about their sound. Since when is it out of bounds to do that? Look, I've been under the assumption that Broadstone is grown up enough to take what I wrote with any sized grain of salt he (or she) wishes and either dismiss what I said out of hand or get interested enough to go to the site and see what there was to it, if anything, for his own purposes. And I don't see any reason for B_limo or anyone else to suggest that Broadstone is somehow too challenged to be counted on to engage in that process on his own...or are both you guys saying that problem is just your own? I stated my case as I see it. And of course I gave the dimensions, Broadstone said he was looking for standmount speakers. I think that to suggest that I'm somehow out to dupe Broadstone based on what I wrote above is just a bit over the top, to me. I can't express an opinion (and a mostly positive one at that) on a product (yes, even one I say I haven't heard) that I've based on reasoned argument because it might offend?? That's crazy... I'm not asking anyone to BUY the damn things, just consider them!...for whatever that's worth to anyone. Last time I checked, that was what forums like this were for. If anyone feels the fact that I say I haven't heard them yet invalidates anything I wrote, then fine, ignore it and move on. But, I feel like I gave everyone the information they need to make up their own mind on that point, one way or the other.

Honestly, I considered the wavetouch speakers and may consider them again someday soon.

Ivan, your post sounds like spam, or an infomercial. You go on and on about how great these speakers are (which they may be!) only to say you've never actually heard them. The original post was about bookshelf speakers and a sub to replace tower speakers because the op was looking for more bass...

No hard feeling, Ivan, just saying that your intentions may have good, but could actually be harmful to a small, just starting out, company like wavetouch. Spam and lengthy posts touting a product that is slightly off the original post sounds fishy to most people and make them run.

Oh...ok, I think I'm beginning to see where you're coming from. That may be an angle I didn't consider well enough from the start, my bad if that's so...not trying to muddy up the waters for anyone... I'll see if I can't be a little more careful about things like that from now on.

Ivan, here's a suggestion from someone who tends to write lengthy posts (me) who's learning to rein it in a bit:

Draw a line between recommendations or reviews based on personal experience vs. suggestions based on what you've read about or heard about. If it's a suggestion without experience, simply mention it as a possibility with a link or two to the relevant information and leave it at that. Maybe even add a disclaimer at the end that you have no connection with the vendor.

Alright Johnny, looks like something like that may be my best bet in any case, actually.

I have always had a tough time in my room with towers with respect to room modes and boomy response. That said the last few speakers have been monitors with good bass response run full range along with a sub that rolls off around 60hz with a crossover slope that best compliments the mains. To accomplish this I use a Velodyne SMS 1 to serve as as a low pass crossover and eq the sub to tame the nasty 40hz peak.

I am running Revel M106 monitors with a REL R305 sub with excellent results.....