Far from having ‘dissolved itself‘ I sincerely hope that this thread might lead serious designers to reconsider whether rather than using a low end, convenience consumer interface with all its known foibles to transmit high quality audio, one might usefully revisit more appropriate formats (optical, I2S, AES/EBU) to improve on what is at best an unacceptably wide range of outcomes with USB; I also note with a degree of puzzlement that members of the ‘bits are bits’ school of sitting on your ears are alive and well
USB sucks
USB really isn‘t the right connection between DAC and Server: depending on cables used, you get very different sound quality if the server manages to recognise the DAC at all. Some time ago I replaced my highly tuned Mac Mini (by now-defunct Mach2mini, running Puremusic via USB) with an Innuos Zenith Mk3. For starters I couldn‘t get the DAC (Antelope Zodiac Gold) and server to recognise each other, transmission from the server under USB2.0 wasn‘t possible because the server is Linux based (mind, both alledgedly support the USB2.0 standard) and when I finally got them to talk to each other (by using Artisansilvercables (pure silver) the sound quality was ho-hum. While I understand the conceptual attraction to have the master clock near the converter under asynchronous USB, the connection‘s vagaries (need for exact 90 Ohms impedance, proneness to IFR interference, need to properly shield the 5v power line, short cable runs) makes one wonder, why one wouldn‘t do better to update I2S or S/PDIF or at the higher end use AES/EBU. After more than 20 years of digital playback, the wide variety of outcomes from minor changes seems unacceptable.
Since then and after a lot of playing around I have replaced the silver cables by Uptone USPCB rigid connectors, inserted an Intona Isolator 2.0 and Schiit EITR converting USB to S/PDIF. Connection to the DAC is via Acoustic Revive DSIX powered by a Kingrex LPS.
The amount of back and forth to make all this work is mindboggling, depending on choice of USB cables (with and without separate 5V connection, short, thick and God-knows what else) is hard to believe for something called a standard interface and the differences in sound quality make any review of USB products arbitrary verging on meaningless.
Obviously S/PDIF gives you no native PCM or DSD but, hey, most recordings still are redbook, anyway.
Conversely it is plug and play although quality of the cable still matters but finally it got me the sound quality I was looking for. It may not be the future but nor should USB, given all the shortcomings. Why is the industry promoting a standard that clearly isn‘t fit for purpose?
Finally, I invite the Bits-are-bits naysayers to go on a similar journey, it just might prove to be educational.
Since then and after a lot of playing around I have replaced the silver cables by Uptone USPCB rigid connectors, inserted an Intona Isolator 2.0 and Schiit EITR converting USB to S/PDIF. Connection to the DAC is via Acoustic Revive DSIX powered by a Kingrex LPS.
The amount of back and forth to make all this work is mindboggling, depending on choice of USB cables (with and without separate 5V connection, short, thick and God-knows what else) is hard to believe for something called a standard interface and the differences in sound quality make any review of USB products arbitrary verging on meaningless.
Obviously S/PDIF gives you no native PCM or DSD but, hey, most recordings still are redbook, anyway.
Conversely it is plug and play although quality of the cable still matters but finally it got me the sound quality I was looking for. It may not be the future but nor should USB, given all the shortcomings. Why is the industry promoting a standard that clearly isn‘t fit for purpose?
Finally, I invite the Bits-are-bits naysayers to go on a similar journey, it just might prove to be educational.
Showing 12 responses by antigrunge2
@djones51: https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2020/03/01/hifi-innuos-zen-mini-mkiii-review-with-phoenix-usb-re-cloc... Seems someone heard a difference |
I wrote this post mainly to alert people that they might be missing out on substantially improved sound by improving/working around their USB connection, provided they can get it to work at all. That in my mind disqualifies USB as a future proof industry standard, irrespective of all the design progress having been made |
@herman Since you like the Antelope DAC: may I suggest you try it on S/PDIF or AES/EBU? With the Schiit EITR the sound is far superior to USB all the way through. And by the bye: the Intona substantially improves the straight USB connection compared to a split lead all silver USB cable. I believe that the effects of noise (either from 5v leakage from the server or all sorts of airborne grunge) on the DAC’s receiver implementation and clocking is still not well understood. |
@ianderson the Zodiac Platinum USB port isue on Linux is fixable by inserting an USB Hub. The point of the thread is the variability of outcomes on the USB connection as a function of different cables, reclocking and galvanic insulation. The range of outcomes makes reviews of USB Dacs borderline meaningless. While one might get lucky with a high quality connection out of the box, nobody can know quite how good relative to various ways of tuning that connection actually is. Not great for an industry standard |