upscale audio is this legal?

Maybe I'm wrong but wanted to get the communities thoughts. A good friend of mine bought a Cary amp from upscale audio it was supposed to be a v12 i. That was a year and a half ago recently he was going to sell it and was looking at the receipt from them and the serial numbers dont match at all!! totally different amp not even a i series. well he called them and they told him there was nothing they would do. I have never checked the serial number on anything I have bought but will from now on.My friend assumed he was getting what he paid for but did not! You would think they knew somewhere along the line they sold him the wrong amp . anyway whats your thoughts.
Would not buy from these dudes EVER!!
If its not an i series as you thot you purchased I ould contact the dealer. If you can document the mistake they should make it right. Seems to me its either a mistake or they intentionally ripped you off. But I would assume its a mistake. Perhaps a small refund. Perhaps they should buy the amp back from you. Good luck
This seems to be linked to another, related thread. The real question is if the serial number was so important as part of the sale, why was this not verified and brought to the dealer's attention immediately upon receipt of the item? It's lame on the part of the buyer to not be diligent and then expect a year and a half later that any remedy with regard to this clerical matter is warranted,

C'mon man, three threads on the same subject, and this one's story is completely different than "What would you do?"

If you want to trash Upscale Audio that's up to you, but one post should be fine. BTW, I've never dealt with them, but many say they're a fine and reputable dealer.

My thoughts are maybe you should stop whining and posting multiple threads on the same subject (or at least keep your story straight).
If he paid for something other than what he received and it's verifiable, he has a legitimate position. The law protects you from your own stupidity. If what he received is of lesser value than what he paid for, then a note to the dealer from his lawyer or a summons to small claims court would quell the tension fairly quickly, I suppose.
What if they DID send the right amp and this is a scam? Unlikely maybe, but still. And I'd like to know why "Ebm" is so adamant. And I'd like to know where the Fedex truck is with the delivery I'm waiting for...unrelated, but I stuck it in here anyway.
"Verifiable" is the operative here. DHL is the way to go. Delivery is unbelievably fast. They have the second largest airline fleet in the world. But I'm referring to ground shipment.
BTW, Ebm is yanking your chain. You should know by now.
Totally DIFFERENT amp AND not even an I? Are you sure it's a CARY? Checking serial numbers on anything is the first thing you should do. Look in the manual. I even wrote down the serial numbers on 4 new Nordost power cords I bought.
After 1 1/2 years.... your fault. Put the shoe on the other foot. I think you are really reaching here.
As the owner of Upscale Audio, I spoke to this fellow yesterday. Let me make a few points:

A: He bought it over a year and a half ago. He needed to contact us in a reasonable time.

B: The unit serial number he has I have no record of owning, buying, shipping, whatever. Having said that, maybe we screwed the pooch and made a mistake.

C: The unit he bought and paid for had damage, having a dented transformer cover. It was discounted and priced as a damaged unit. It evens said that on our used listing which is copied directly onto his invoice. He fails to tell you this. What he received is mint. He conveniently leaves this out.

D: Check the Audiogon bluebook, and the V12 and V12i are not even listed seperate. They retail the same and share the same listing on the bluebook value. Why? They have the same topology. The V12i used a front end tube with less gain, making it harder to drive. This was changed back when the V12i became the V12R.

We have thrived over these last 17 years and enjoy a pretty good reputation. We're the largest tube dealer in the nation. We stock ten times more gear than most dealers. But when you deal with tens of thousands of customers, you will for sure either make mistakes or deal with the unreasonable.

Best to all of you

Kevin Deal
Snofun +1
This thread should be dropped. Obviously an attempt to intimidate a dealer into capitulating from a buyers inattention to detail, or lack of understanding. Do you think a dealer with hundreds of thousand of dollars of inventory is going to stake their reputation on dealing like this? These forums are for discussions of our hobby and passion. Make your stereo purchases at Best Buy, deal with them in 18 months for a return.
1.5 years is a long time. Long past the point of reasonable to expect a seller to correct a mistake.
Not right if the facts are as originally stated. Does the receipt show what was actually sold?
As Csontos stated bring it to small claims court and you will be surprised at how quickly a resolution will happen.
Keep us posted.
Sorry but the buyer is at fault. You want to come back over a year and a half later??? So the burger I ate last year at McDonalds was terrible so I'm going to go demand a refund now??

I have tubes from Upscale and they are great. Tubes from other places not so much. I would trust Upscale and that if a mistake was made it should have been looked at right away when you got the unit not years after.

Lame, go troll somewhere else.
It seems to me that Kevin Deal is a pretty straight up guy for stepping into the lion's den of this thread and giving a clear and thorough response. That, along with looking at his perfect feedback, leaves me with the thought that the matter is between the original poster and Mr. Deal, not an appropriate subject for this forum. BTW, I do not know Kevin, nor am I out to take sides. Just trying to look at this in a sensible manner.
Methinks 52tiger is a slimeball.
I have had a positive experience dealing with Kevin. I made a purchase transaction long distance, by phone. He was very straight forward with me over the phone, answered all my questions, I gave him my credit card number, and the product arrived on my doorstep a couple of days later. Stand up guy, of high integrity.
It's easy to hide behind the name Tiger52 and do this kind of crap with no downside.

I called the customer and offered, if available, a V12i with a dented transformer cover which he paid for. I think he sees that the mint unit he bought (and you saw) was a better choice. My primary purpose is happines of customers.

He said you don't like me, and you called me a dick. I asked him your name and looked up your purchase record. Out of close to 20,000 Upscale Audio customers, I remember you from your purchase in 2003...almost 10 years ago. For a reason.

I want to thank you for posting this. The people who HAVE shopped here have posted good reports about how we treat them, our ethics, and our prices.

It increased sales to people that have gone to our website and also found there is a place where they can find the rare and unfindable in tubes.

My sincere thanks to our customers.

Kevin Deal
I've bought dozens of tubes from Upscale over the years, some very expensive, and every transaction has been excellent. I trust this dealer. I don't trust many.
Sounds like Upscale is on the money!!
While 1.5 years may be too long after the fact to complaint about, the fact that UA could be so off is suspect. SNs typically track manufactures' products from inspection and to the retailer through the warranty period.

Had the buyer gone to Cary directly for warranty service, it is unlikely he would have got any if there were no records associated with the unit he had or what was on his reflected on his invoice.

In this case, the passage of time is being asserted as an defense, but it doesn't negate the fundamental misrepresentation regardless if was intentional or negligent.
This will be the last I say about this. My friend the original owner told me he looked for the dent but couldn't see it. I'm not trying to mislead anyone here Kevin wants to Also leave out the receipt says the amp has the upgraded oil caps he says are a must have for this amp. A $300 upgrade. My buddy doesn't know whether his amp has that or not. I would like to know how many buyers check the serial number? If you don't you should in the future. In my opinion Kevin at upscale is arrogant and I thought the truth should be told.Today Kevin called my friend and asked what he wanted which is what he should have said to start with.the reason for the 3 post is I thought the first 2 were rejected from the moderator so I worded it differently.good news this has actually increased upscale audio sells! Check your serial numbers
It is possible that Upscale made an error... 1.5 years ago. If they did, it should have been addressed then. It's also possible that someone is trying to scam him. I'm not saying that is the case. The simple fact is, dealing on line, you do get people trying to cheat you. I have a customer right now asking for some help/advice after 1.5 years. I'm more than happy to do what I can to help. He isn't throwing stones, or accusing me of some wrong doing. If he were, I probably wouldn't give him the time of day. I don't know Kevin, and I have never dealt with him. IMO, this thread should be deleted. No matter what, this is hurting what I believe is an honest seller.
"it doesn't negate the fundamental misrepresentation regardless if was intentional or negligent"

Huh? Misrepresentation is defined as intentional.
You again continue to disparage Upscale with incomprehensible writing, nonsense arguments and innuendo, and should be quite embarrassed regarding your actions.

I haven't dealt with Upscale but everything I've ever seen or heard has been positive. You come off like an ignorant douche.
I think we need to revisit the need for proper spelling and punctuation as this stuff often hurts my eyeballs. Also, regarding the second part of my response (again, having nothing to do with this thread), UPS did show up and my new guitar arrived in fine shape.
I was in a UPS depot one time and watched what goes on for a while. Last time I ever accepted or shipped anything by them. They also don't pay attention to instructions.
["C: The unit he bought and paid for had damage, having a dented transformer cover. It was discounted and priced as a damaged unit. It evens said that on our used listing which is copied directly onto his invoice. He fails to tell you this. What he received is mint. He conveniently leaves this out."]

"The unit he bought and paid for had damage," The serial number for this unit is?

"What he received is mint." Are you saying the unit was repaired or it's a different unit? If so, what's the serial number for that unit? Don't know? Then contact your manufacture and find out who purchased those serial numbers. Jeez, you're the dealer!

["B: The unit serial number he has I have no record of owning, buying, shipping, whatever. Having said that, maybe we screwed the pooch and made a mistake.']

Frankly, the dealer should have slept on this response. It comes of as very unprofessional if not childish considering, "maybe," admitting fault.

The original poster or his friend is still your customer and you had an opportunity to be the hero instead of a pathetic victim. Now more than twenty people have responded and who knows how many more will read this thread. Was that really worth it?
I have nothing but great things to say about Kevin and Upscale Audio. Many purchases went right and when one went wrong, they made it right. I highly recommend them.
Upscale... I've never bought anything from you but have considered too but after reading your response it is clear I would not do business with you ever. Yes I'm just one customer but based on this thread I think you have lost other opportunities as well.
Good luck.
> ["B: The unit serial number he has I have
> no record of owning, buying, shipping,
> whatever. Having said that, maybe we
> screwed the pooch and made a mistake.']
> Frankly, the dealer should have slept on
> this response. It comes of as very
> unprofessional if not childish considering,
> "maybe," admitting fault.

You're a nut. The dealer is admitting he might not be perfect and is willing to look at it that way. That's refreshing in a world where most people hate admiting they might be wrong.

This isn't childish and unprofessional, it's grown up and forward thinking.

We don't know that this 52tiger guy isn't trying to pull a fast one. Dunno if Upscale is an authorized Cary dealer or not, but if so, then a phone call to Cary about this serial number would be pretty useful.

Seems like Kevin is willing to look into the issue. 1.5 years is quite a long time though. My first reaction would be to say sorry, it's been too long. But the warranty issue (if there is one) is a fair point and I think hence worth researching as a Cary dealer helping a customer get to the bottom of an issue if nothing else.
I have never purchased from Upscale. But reading thru the entire thread, I do not see them to be at fault. What part in Upscale's response do you find offensive that you would not want to deal with them? OTOH OP has hidden some info that Upscale mentioned. That makes this thread fishy. So I do not understand you getting upset with Upscale.
I have bought gear from Kevin and found him to be arrogant ass. There are or were several threads concerning his attitude. On the other hand, I do think a year and a half is pushing the limit to resolve an issue. This issue should have been dealt with when the amp was delivered. There are many places to buy gear and tubes. Move on. don't want upscale to go broke do you? 1 person can make a difference? I wanna know what the serial # is on the Cary V12 amp!
I have bought both equipment and tubes from Kevin. He has always been more than fair and honest with me and my friends.
I do not doubt or Have any reason to question his knowledge, honesty, sincerity, and ethics.

That is including this post!
Yeah Rsf507 - Exactly what in Upscale's response would make you make such statements?

He makes reasonable statements and tries to deal with the situation rationally versus the OP who comes up with different stories to fit his needs.

Where do these people come from?
Wilsynet, the Dealer doesn't make any mention of, "willing to look at it that way," if at all. If that's implied then it went right over, as you grasiously put it, my nut. It still isn't clear if the damaged unit the customer purchased or the mint unit was the one sent to the customer.

As a public statement the Dealers response still reads unprofessional to me. With that and a few other negative anecdotes elsewhere on the net this previous costumer will take any future business elsewhere.

Be that as it may, after a further response by the Dealer it appears the two have a history of disagreement that may preclude any need for outside response including mine.
Based on Kevin's latest response, sounds like he has offered to replace the amplifier sent in error with the correct and appropriate amplifier.

This is above and beyond fair.

I have never bought from Upscale, but I would now consider Upscale a preferred dealer.