I would kindly ask don't post anything like increase a volume, check your connections or move up the pass separates. I stated clearly that my interest related only to integrated amps and now specifically to Gryphon Diablo 300 since I offered a great deal on the new unit. So if anybody owns Diablo 300 or had a chance to audition it and compare it to any pass gear, please provide your opinion. Thank you. |
jjue, thanks for the comments, as usual, it is all system and taste dependent. When I had Vitus RI-100 in my system for a demo, to my ears, it had some better resolution than pass but sounded more analytical (less musical) than my Pass Int-250. Based on what I'm reading on the net, the Gryphon delivers front rows presentation with outstanding refinement and musicality. If this is the case - this is what I am after. I did not find any negative review or opinion on the forums (yet) related to the Diablo 300. The Dartzeel (new) and others in this range out of my budget completely and I'm not after used units at this level of the equipment. |
Greginnh, so you are saying that E-600 is more refined than E-470?, what else, more 3d, more texture, micro details, how its bass? I never buy retail and currently have a pretty good deal on coming E-650 since its supposed to be better according to a specs. But again no possibility to audition. Thanks again. |
Jafant Lak, thank you, I will. Not an easy decision. The pass INT-250 is very good. May be anybody will be interested in my experience with the integrated..So far in my system, I had these integrated (mostly playing with Sonus Faber or Vienna Acoustics models): 1. Plinius Hiato - great midrange and bass, highs are hot and digital noise persistent - as result lack of air and micro details. 2. Gamut D150SE - good airy sound silky highs, but lack of bass and poor build for the price. 3. Accuphase E-470. Great build. I guess prestige play part. But nothing special with the sound - overpriced in US. 4. Pass labs INT-60 - great one,
beat all the above but when I had Guarneri Evos, I needed some more power to get that relaxed/effortless feel in the sound. 5. Mark Levinson 585 - balanced smooth sound, but I felt its not a best match with Sonus faber. 6. Viva Solista - very good 845 tube based amp. To my surprise has been a good match with Sonus faber Anniversarios. The tube swapping so drove my crazy and it obviously ran hot. On a higher volumes did not have enough power to get SF sing. But with efficient speakers will be outstanding. 7. Pass labs INT-250 bested all the above. Power, musicality, good details. But I know that my new Sonus faber Serafinos can exhibit even better sound - with more flash out micro details and dynamics. So my only choice that I like to explore is Gryphon Diablo 300. Even so I appreciate it, please don't offer your opinion on anything else, since I am only interested in Gryphon. Lack of availability to demo, makes me to ask assistance on the forums. So again please anybody with hands on or any experience with Gryphon Diablo and its sound and reliability please chime in. Thank you. |
Greginnh, is E-600 really being class A really better than other integrated models in accuphase range? Did you had a chance to demo and compare? But still Accuphase is way overpriced here in US, so I doubt I will proceed looking at the new model. |
Greginnh, thank you for the valuable info. I may get back at considering Accupase E-650, especially since the Accuphase dealer is offering pretty good deal. This may explain the popularity of the Accuphase, because of the class A. |
Inna, I agree. But I never buy for full retail. 20% off at least. As I said above I have been offered great deal that is not easy to pass. It’s still risky, but the dealer that I know for quite some time has both in his showroom and swears that gryphon in a different league. He is saying that to his ears it’s even better (more musically involving) than Vitus SIA-025. I heard that model of Vitus and it is terrific integrated. |
Inna, let me clarify, for a Gryphon deal, I am not getting a 20% off, but instead was offered outstanding trade in price quote for my pass int-250. Gryphon don't give 20% discounts.
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Dave and Troy, please don't use my thread to push your product. You recommended this once, there is no need to go into details again and again. At this point I'm interested only in the opinion of the people who actually heard Gryphon Diablo 300 integrated. All other options off the table. Thanks.
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Folks, thanks a lot for your help. Good advises on the starting a new thread, but no need for it , as AudioTroy said, , the deal is too good to pass, next week I’ll pull the trigger on Gryphon.
when I get it, I post my humble one on gryphon vs pass integrates.
Based on the Gryphin dealer who’s opinion I learned to trust,
the gryphon is richer, more detailed an dynamic with sweet highs and better bass. Considering that Pass Int-250 is no slouch either, the Diablo me be my last integrated to buy for a long time.
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I demoed Mark Levinson 585 and Vitus RI-100.
My pass int-250 is better than both of those to my ears.
The Levinson was too polite anD Vitus too hi-fi ish sounding, not my thing. The Vitus SIA-025 is the one that checks all boxes, but lack of US service and low power (with lower efficiency speakers bass may not be his strong attribute) and price steered me away.
Inna, agree with you on theimportance of cables.i happen to learn that cables are should be considered as another important component of the overall system. Currently all Shunyata sigma power cables and latest alpha speaker cables have been doing a very good job. The Shunyata alpha speaker cables bested my favorite Purist audio Neptune speaker cables that I liked a lot. |
Hello, I got the Gryphon Diablo 300. It was delivered to me by freight on a pallet. After 5 hours of burning (it was totally brand new), this is my observation in compare to Pass INT-250. First obvious difference the low and mid bass on a different level - deeper tighter and more detailed. Second; the Gryphon's dynamic agility is best I heard at my house. The drum kicks, piano notes appears all of a sudden with such clarity, impact and focus - much closer to live performance than pass. The overall presentation is more neutral but still very musical and of cause micro details - on a new Bill Charlap disk I clearly hear him pushing pedals on his piano. I did not hear it with pass that clear. The only area for now were pass is may be better is soundstage of the pass is larger up front, but may be its just because the Gryphon is so new. At the same time the Gryphon's soundstage is deeper - again closer to what I hear attending to real live concerts. So to me in my system (even so Pass is terrific performer) Gryphon Diablo bring me another step closer to live performance with its low/mid bass,dynamic swings and micro details. And another very important aspect - no listening fatigue at all - outstanding for a brand new unit. My search for a perfect integrated is over. My big thank you to Mike from Suncoast audio for his outstanding service and making it it possible to happen. |
Inna, totally agree with your thinking, cables are critically important part of the system and the higher you are - the more significance they bring. For now I am done - exactly like you said - recovering from these
expenses.
My all cabling including speaker cables (with the exception of ICs - here I have Jade gold reference XLRs that I intend keep for a long time) are Shunyata sigma and they are very good. So going forward I'm finally done with speakers, cables and amplification. The only thing I would like to improve is a frond end, meaning going with a great streamer and dac. But my esoteric k-05x is pretty god and I still like spinning cds and not to be depended on internet connection and streaming provider issues. Ideally I would love to upgrade to esoteric K-01x now but than divorce will become imminent :). |
Ok guys. My Gryphon Diablo 300 is ccurrently on 80 hours mark braking in and I feel that it needs another 70- 100 to fully open up. Differences with the Pass INT-250 so far: Gryphon is more revealing, not as smooth as Pass. But its tonality more in line with what I hear attending the live concerts; no fatigue. Gryphon is faster and more dynamic. Its ability to go from a total silence to the popping 3d sound is amazing. I think its his biggest strength. Gryphon has better defined lows and highs. The midrange is more neutral than Pass and some people who prefer stand out midrange may not like it. But again the Gryphon's midrange is more in line with real live. Gryphon is being more reveling does require more consideration for the cables matching, front end and speakers. Some poorly made recordings may not sound as pleasant with Gryphon as they do with Pass. So far I still remain with my initial opinion that Gryphon is a step closer to the live music than Pass INT-250 and more refined integrated overall. For the money, especially if you find the used one, the Pass INT-250 is a great integrated if you have a space for it. It does not get hot as the class A offers from Pass. But it is just big and heav. In my house its was better than many integrated listed above in this forum, with the exception of two: 1.Vitus SIA-025 that I listened at dealer's show room, but they had it connected to the same speakers I had by that time - Marten Django XL so I could get a good idea. 2, Gryphon Diablo 300.
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Some update, the Gryphon continues to sound better. I have around 150 hours on it and I think its fully opened up and sound outstanding. For sure in anther league from Pass INT-250. Now, esoteric will increase its retail pricing across the board worldwide by 10-15% on 12/24. This and great offer from my dealer pushed me to do a long wanted upgrade from esoteric k-05x to esoteric k-01x. This is the final step to achieving what I want and I am done. Once hi end streamers become less expensive I will look for something like Aurender N10 in a couple of years. Happy holidays and outstanding 2018 to all. |
Agree with Inna, the Gryphon diablo 300 not only more powerful but also more refined than diablo 120, plus you want it to be your last amplifier. |
Bob, I did not listen the 120 but I called gryphon myself and they told me that diablo 300 has class A dual mono preamplifier stage that is taken from their refference preamplifier. This contributes to more deatails and better instrument placements in the sound reproduction
The 120 does not have it. |
Guys, my gryphon diablo 300 has about 200 hours on it and I think it fully burned in now. The overall sound is so refined but at the same time rich and textured, far from thin , cold or analytical, but at the same time I can’t say it’s warm or thick sounding, as I said before, it’s closer to live sound more than any integrated I had and heard.
i will also put the end to some concerns about heat. Yesterday I used it non stop for about 7 hours and it became just moderatly warm to touch. The pass int-250 has been much warmer in my system.
greginnth, thanks. Looks like I follow your steps, next on the horizon is aurender n10. Also bought stillpoints ultra ss to use on k-01x that should come in a week.
Happy New 2018 to all. |
Hi Douglas, care to elaborate on your statement? Thanks. |
johnread57,
During these two years I sold Gryphon 300, bought Luxman 509x sold it and got new pass int250 again.
Why did I sell Gryphon 300 - in my system with my speakers (Sonus faber Amati Tradition) I noticed that Gryphon sounds not as good at the lower volumes (loosing some of the micro details its famous for) as driven with the higher volumes. Another reason I got into the hype of Luxman 509x and bought it for a great price. And another (important) reason for me - you can ship Gryphon only by freight and its a pain to make sure that the wooden box is secure. Personally I don’t want to deal with that.
Reason for selling Luxman 509x- hype did not leave to expectations.
Luxman 509x in my system sounded hifi and strained on the higher volumes levels no matter what I did - cables changes, trying different front end - with any iteration I heard hifi instead of music.
At this point I told myself - I will buy integrated or anything else only after auditioning in my system no matter how great the deal is or how many great reviews the product has.
So I got opportunity to try pass int 250 again and not commit to anything until I audition in my system. This time (different: speaker cables Audience front row instead of Shunyata Sigma, GIK acoustics, and Triode Wire labs Obsession power cables instead of Shunyata Sigma HC) I really like the sound of the pass int 250 in my system. Now It is dynamic, great harmonics, outstanding tight bass and highs that not fatigue and most important for me - the overall presentation is very musical.
Yes its may not be as fast and extended on tope as Gryphon but for the price and for my ears its very good. Read the review from Audidrom (the side I somewhat trust more than some other reviewers). Plus support from pass is outstanding.
So for now I stay with pass int 250. To my ears, with right cables and front end I doubt one can find better integrated within that price range.
When funds permit I want to try T+A 3100 integrated or check out separates like Merrill 116 or 114 or Luxman 900 combo. |
Lak, yes, my personal opinion that cables should be considered as components. Cables synergy with gear is very important.
I wish I would realized it much sooner in my journey. I sold/traded quite a few great amplifiers because of the poorly matched cables. Btw the pass int-250 sounds terrific at low volumes, probably the class A bias at lower volumes plays some part. I would strongly consider class A pass separates (pass 100.8 or even better 160.8) , but they generate a lot of heat. |
br3098, yes speakers are very important component, but I disagree that its all about speakers. With a lot of trials and errors for the last 15 years, I now understand that before signal gets to the speakers it has to go thru the whole chain of components called system - were everything is critically important to make the speakers sound to their best.
If one does not have the 20 amp dedicated line it will affect the signal. Outlets, power conditioning, power cables, audio stands, isolation devices and of cause room acoustics. After that front end, ICs, amplification, speakers cables and finally speakers and your listening position. Another important thing is the synergy between all components. Great cables like Nordost V2 will sound great with speakers like Sonus Faber, but may be too much for speakers like Magico that is great with Shunyata or Audioquest cables. The same with amplifier and everything else.
But if integrated or pre/amplifier combo does not have enough current to drive medium /lower efficient speakers - even if those speakers are great ones and cost like a good car, one will never hear proper drum kicks, 3d soundstage, bass and other important things. If amplifier does have a lot of current but speaker cables unable to deliver it to the speakers - again you will never hear full potential of your amplifier and speakers.
I can go on. For the last 15 years, I spent well above $100k to have sound that I think gets me closer to jazz live music, but my whole system costs around $65k retail. Were did other $100k went - trials end errors and lack of understanding that everything is very important in the system. And another very important thing - no matter how good your dealers are, no matter how great reviews and users opinions on specific components - one have to trust his own eras only. |
