I just love great music. I personally don't care what speaker or amps are used to achieve it. Right now I'm into Vandersteen big time as they are the only one's on the market for MY EARS and ROOM that are coherent, tonally on, disappear and throw a huge stage etc... The bass is turnable in the room, which is so important as I have a brutal room IRT bass as it's an open loft. I am shocked at the quality I'm able to get now. Johnny at Audio Connection set them up and he really did a great job. I've had many others in the room, that were set up by dealers or even manufacturers and they just didn't sound as good. Thats' just me. I also like the Tidal speakers a lot. No need to type about other speakers that dont' do it for me as this thread is about the OP and wanting new speakers. Go out and listen. Dont' listen to teh dealers sales pitches, listen to the music with your ears and go from there.
I love it when dealers post on threads as long as they don't become commercials for their gear. Troy, I"m sorry, but it doesn't matter what thread you are on, you sound like a commercial and so many are sick of it. Yes, you change gear often based on following your store and what you have is always the best and the best buy. I'm happy that you set things up better than others do. If the Persona's are so difficult to set up, then that could be difficult for many. To my ear, they are tipped too much at the top like other Paradigm's including ones I've owned in the past. They have the room correction that, I was told by their US sales VP I believe his title is, makes them the easiest speaker to set up as it fixes everything. Not sure why dealers who are trying to sell them can't set them up correctly. I wonder if they can sound decent with Ayre, Jadis, Boulder, Aesthetix, Audio Research or any other top amps? Just sounds like a commercial to me.
JOhnny has posted in this thread too, but he just mentioned Vandy 7 mk 2 that HE sells. He doesn't go into much else and he hasn't talked about why the Vandersteen's sound better than the Wilson's. To many, they won't.
OP, go listen to a bunch of speakers. Check out the coherency, tonality, size of the soundstage and if it changes with each album as all are recorded differently. You know the drill or you wouldn't be looking at the prices you are. I personally drive 3 hours to purchase my and electronics from Johnny at AC as do many others on the net. I also guy from Ralph at Take 5 in New Haven. I have purchased Paradigm's from Bernie at the Audio Store in Newington CT. Lot's of great dealers out there who are willing to help you out and that even includes Audio Troy folks. Glad I came across this thread. I'm sure Troy will come back with something slick to discredit my post, but that's fine to as I'm not selling stuff and they are, so there's that. Keep letting us know what's up with the search. |
Off the track as I expected. First off Dave, I have fallen in love with Vandersteen's for my purposes. I have been that way about all the gear I buy, just like most of us. I happen to know many in the industry as I've been into it since the late 60's. I'll always post kind things about dealers around the country I've met if they are good.
I won't get involved in your 'mine is bigger than yours' argument with Gpg. He's just a poster and not pushing products he sells to make a living, so I'll just leave it at that.
You did make one comment in an earlier post that really rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it's because of who I am, but I was in sales for years after my Navy retirement. I only stopped due to my MS about 11 years ago. I NEVER can remember a time that I EVER laughed about a customer or potential customer after I left them. Ever. Many of them I would shake my head and try to see their side. I'd wonder why they felt the way they did. I can be very snarky, but I also like to think I respect folks too. I have spoken to Matt and even said that maybe I'd go to your shop with him someday when I can get down there, but honestly, that comment made me realize that the second I left, you'd probably laugh at me and make fun of me. I'm sure it's just me, but you lost any credibility you may have had with me. Not that it matters to you of course. |
Off the track as I expected. First off Dave, I have fallen in love with Vandersteen's for my purposes. I have been that way about all the gear I buy, just like most of us. I happen to know many in the industry as I've been into it since the late 60's. I'll always post kind things about dealers around the country I've met if they are good.
I won't get involved in your 'mine is bigger than yours' argument with Gpg. He's just a poster and not pushing products he sells to make a living, so I'll just leave it at that.
You did make one comment in an earlier post that really rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it's because of who I am, but I was in sales for years after my Navy retirement. I only stopped due to my MS about 11 years ago. I NEVER can remember a time that I EVER laughed about a customer or potential customer after I left them. Ever. Many of them I would shake my head and try to see their side. I'd wonder why they felt the way they did. I can be very snarky, but I also like to think I respect folks too. I have spoken to Matt and even said that maybe I'd go to your shop with him someday when I can get down there, but honestly, that comment made me realize that the second I left, you'd probably laugh at me and make fun of me. I'm sure it's just me, but you lost any credibility you may have had with me. Not that it matters to you of course. |
Off the track as I expected. First off Dave, I have fallen in love with Vandersteen's for my purposes. I have been that way about all the gear I buy, just like most of us. I happen to know many in the industry as I've been into it since the late 60's. I'll always post kind things about dealers around the country I've met if they are good.
I won't get involved in your 'mine is bigger than yours' argument with Gpg. He's just a poster and not pushing products he sells to make a living, so I'll just leave it at that.
You did make one comment in an earlier post that really rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it's because of who I am, but I was in sales for years after my Navy retirement. I only stopped due to my MS about 11 years ago. I NEVER can remember a time that I EVER laughed about a customer or potential customer after I left them. Ever. Many of them I would shake my head and try to see their side. I'd wonder why they felt the way they did. I can be very snarky, but I also like to think I respect folks too. I have spoken to Matt and even said that maybe I'd go to your shop with him someday when I can get down there, but honestly, that comment made me realize that the second I left, you'd probably laugh at me and make fun of me. I'm sure it's just me, but you lost any credibility you may have had with me. Not that it matters to you of course.
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Dave, I know you are a good guy, because Matt vouches for you. That's all I need. Will I come in to meet you in person? Someday. I have to as we haven't seen eye to eye on some things and Id' rather do that in person than on a faceless forum.
I have never liked Paradigm's high end. Every. My daughter has a pair I used to own. She sings (even made the cut at Idol and The Voice when she was 16) and even she says they are too bright. It's the top end and no matter what amps I've heard them with, they were just too bright for me. Again, that's just me and it's one of the biggest things I don't like about gear. I'm sensitive to it. I didn't like the metal wilsons, but enjoy listening to the soft dome ones. I just don't feel they have the detail I get from other speakers. Still a nice speaker and highly dynamic. B&W diamonds are too bright for me also. Way too upfront. Sonus F are too soft for me now days. I liked their older ones better. The newest Magico's S3 newest mark ?? were a bit dry. Highly dynamic and not coherent in the mid bass region down. It didn't mate well for MY ears with the mids on up. It was a strange listening session for me and Peter McKay was the one who set them up in a great sounding room.
There are my reasons as to why I love my Vandersteen's. I'm in no way associated with them. Do I know the folks there? Yes, I do know them. I also know folks at a lot of places as over the years you meet people. Heck, my ex was Mark Levinson's attorney when we were married back in the 90's, lol. ...The man, not Madrigal.
Sounds like the OP love the Wilson sound and if so, that's awesome, but he should (if he can) go listen to all the speaker lines and include Rockport if possible. Then he can figure out what he wants and loves. JMHO.
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OP, I would love to hear your thought's on Wilsons, Magico's, B&W, Vandersteen and a few other speakers in your price ranges. That's the only way that you will ever figure out what you want. I've seen many folks go audition some speakers they originally didn't think they'd like and change their minds. As many know I get to listen to a ton of gear both in my house or at some of the shops. I have never been to any shows, but I would like to one of these days.
I ended up with Vandersteen's and have become a huge fan, because I haven't fallen in love with any of the others from Wilson to Focal to Magico to B&W to Paradigm to ..... I have loved Tidal, but can't afford them. I actually liked the newest Proacs, but not compared to comparably priced Vandersteen's. I liked the Rockports that I heard, but I forgot which model. They were out of my league and I'm not sure they were as good as the Steen's for me, but they were really nice.
The thing is there are speakers for everyone. We all hear differently. It also depends on who you listen with and how much you listen to them. You have to trust your own ears and now what any of us say.
I have noticed that many folks stay true to one brand and others keep chasing nirvana. I notice many who do the chasing are always posting about how great their gear is. If it is, then why are they constantly switching out? When you read their posts, they aren't happy and keep chasing their tails. I know when I've made changes, it's after many satisfied years or recently from the Vandersteen Treo to the Quatro as that was my plan as I saved the money to upgrade into that league. I still auditioned everything I could and felt very comfortable in my purchase. As I continue to hear other gear, I'm still very very satisfied with what I have.
Many are like I am in that they do as much homework as possible and don't listen to what dealers or manufacturer's tell us during our listening sessions. Keep us posted and let's hope the thread get's back on track. |
There are a ton of good options for everyone's tastes in audio right now. More than at any time I bet. It's really interesting once you get away from dealers commercials interrupting threads is that folks want to interact with owners of other products or just want validation of what they know or have just purchased.
There is a reason that many owners stay within their own lines or the opposite happens with folks always buying and selling and chasing their tails (often times), or just wanting a totally different sound. Some are into their gear and some into the music. The rest are into their gear for sure, but also are in search of the best recreation of 'real music'.
What is real music? Do these folks go to live events and try to get that at home? Do they NOT go to live events and the only reference they have is what a dealer, friend or internet tells them? A great speaker is a great speaker. I always hear folks say that a speaker does rock better because it moves more air. Some say that the intimacy of a vocal group is best on say Harbeth or some other mid centric speaker.
I honestly say that's all BS. I really do. I understand that some want to move more air and add subs, because their speaker can't move what they need in their room (or just simply want). Fully understand and of course respect that. The more I go listen now days, the more I realize that there are many good speakers. There arelly are. I listen to Vandersteen adn love them, but I could be happy with most any speaker over 20k for the most part I think. I'd have to overlook the shrill highs that so many top speakers have, but they do so much right. I'd get used to the coherency thing or the smearing that so many have as they do other things well or may just be fun to listen to. I want it all though and that's why I am so careful of my system matching as well as my own room. I hear so much about DSP and have heard it on speakers, preamps and stand alone devices. I"m talking state of the art gear and expensive stuff, so it's not crap for what it is. I am still not a big fan. I now what I hear and for ME, it dont' think it's near where is needs to be for high end. Will it get there? Maybe or maybe not. Hey, I have a high end DAC as have heard most of the upper crust DAC's in more than a few systems as well as in my own as I've had some sent my way at times. They still aren't analog. They just aren't and I'm sad since I had to sell my analog rig recently as I can't get up every 25 minutes to flip and clean albums. Too demanding for my MS and it has been for years, but I waited to sell (still need to sell my albums, lol.....maybe, lol).
There are many who say that digital is as good or some even may say better, but there's a reason even young kids are buying tables and albums. Newer technologies have allowed makers to produce the best sounding analog gear we've ever seen. Same with speakers. Figuring out ways to use some exotic materials in cabinets, cones and drivers along with components in crossovers (including wire and solder or cold welds) have given us some tremendous speakers. We all have personal favorites. For me, any dealer lacks credibility, unless you are close friends and they are honest. Some really are trying to help, but they are still in business and need to feed their families as well as those who work for them.
My friends and I talk about this all the time. We all have favorite posters and folks we've met from the boards who we trust. We know how they are different in their tastes than us and are able to read their thoughts on gear and translate if you will to how we'd hear something. It's respecting what others hear and fall in love with. As much as I love Vandersteen's with the gear I've put it with in my room, it's not for everyone. As much as you guys love Wilson's or Magico's or B&W's or Dynaudio or ........ the same goes for you too. This is why we can fight, disagree or whatever on a board, but folks really need to go listen. The problem we have is that you can't audition most of the gear in many parts of the country. I"m blessed to live near a two hour drive where I can audition anything I want for the most part. Wish others could too.
OP, hope you aren't scared off by what became of your thread as I felt it was a normal starting thread until the hijack. What have you done? Have you auditioned anything yet? Did you get a new set of Wilson's or something else?
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