Go for a Micro Seiki SX 8000 or SX 8000 II. You will start wondering what kind of worlds do exist. |
Syntax agree, a cow is a cow and remains a cow but you can feed it properly, put it on good ground and you will like it much more. Agree not with Dertonarm: You need to ask many audiophiles first and get many opinions. You might learn from these opinions if you are able to draw some conclusions. It is important that you build up a proper decision path which is not so easy. Didn`t we all make some wrong decision on our journey and learned from that!! |
Dear Dertonearm,
understanding you correctly we have to stop exchanging opinions. But what are we doing here and you too? Of course there are some very experienced opinion leaders and we like to listen to those guys. Nevertheless you cannot compare a consulting approach (done by human beings) with a technical and fully logical decision-finding process.
We are in no way logical bust most people would like to be!! Maybe some audiophiles adopt a somehow logical approach, some other will never do.
Therefore the best approach in the case of Alectioning is to put questions (what he did) and assess all our answers on our experience background and what might match to his taste and pocket. He draw a very good conclusion when stating the Black Knight could be a step forward but will never be the giant leap.
I have heard 5000 and 8000 Micros with air suspension and without. I would not prefer the non vaccuum versions. You do this. What is the reason for your position? |
As I understood you are finished with billiard playing, so let´s spend one more thought on audiophile opinions.
A good definition is: The difference between fact and opinion is that a fact is something that is empirically true and can be supported by evidence while an opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with some type of evidence. An opinion is normally a subjective statement that can be the result of an individual interpretation of a fact.
I hope we agree that we discuss more or less on the bases of opinions and not all the time on facts?
Assessing the quality of TTs we may judge on some performance data, the kind of technology which is used, the acceptance of the audiophile forum (we all), the activities of the sales forces behind the product, maybe pricing as well (?) etc. In the end we select favorites which mirror the momentary level of our systems. In this stage our opinion about the brand and the type of TT is formed.
To assess audiophile opinions we have to have a close look at the experience of the opinion makers, maybe at their systems and at the quality of their recommendations. This is the kind of erratic approach we are following usually in this wonderful journey. But in some way it is following an interative path of experiences - with positive results.
When it comes to listening I do think that maybe 99,5% among us feel like an audiophile expert being able assessing TTs. Of course we hear the difference of TTs, tonearms and cartridges. We go to fairs, we visit friends with good systems, sometimes we are invited by manufactures to assess prototypes etc. In the end we usually end up defending our grounds more or less stating so called facts (which are sometimes opinions). That´s the difficult side of opinions. |
Lewm, Dertonarm: You may continue billiard playing. I did`nt want stopping you. Maybe next year when we are facing new tables... |
Dear Dover, air-bearings are not out. Just look at the new Bergmann concept. It looks that more and more developers dealing with Top-High-End TTs are having an eye on air bearings. For what reason? |
Alectioning, what I learned from a friend in France: it is not easy to sell a Raven at the moment. I do not why but many potential buyers my friend contacted were quickly offered nearly new Ravens for a very good price. I have no clue how this could work. |
Syntax, it might me a fruitful approach to test the halcyonics duo or/and the halcyonics sandwich, also against the Vibraplane. As they say they produce custome made units at the moment you get a sandwich unit only in 800mm x 800mm which is somehow an oversize for most audiophiles.
As you might agree we both are not keeping cows in our barn or do we? |
Dear Dertonarm,
I see your point very well, if someone will invest the money i´d rather like watching the race between active and passive isolation by myself - just for interest.The question remains if it is worth the investment. Nevertheless you also know the famous words: no risk no fun...
or: believe what you hear
or: trust your good friends |
Audiofeil, if you do feeling lectured by >Dertonearm`s long explanations you may not draw any positive or additional information for you. In this case you either are more sophisticated in TT design as Dertonearm and the discussion is boring you or you believe in the mysterious of TTs and do not accept any other view. Hope you are refering to option ONE. |
Dear Audiofile,
I had hoped so! Now I can go for Christmas preparations...
Have a good time too.
thuchan |
Downunder, it is very funny. I just described what happend to a friend of mine and people owning a Raven like you feel not comfortable with the fact that this happens at the moment - at least in France. Maybe also with people trying to sell other modern TTs, I don´t know. BTW I do know Thomas very well and have a very good relation to him.
Hope you feel comfortable now!? |
Downunder, perfect!
when it comes to evaluating what might be the right TT for one`s own system - as Alectioning is doing - it is not only a question of technology (drives: DD, idler-drive, thread etc.; motor units, experience of the developer etc.), of quality (built material, oil of bearing etc.), of decoupeling measurements, of surrounding installations (tonearm, cartridge, cable, phono pre etc.) but also of VALUE !
What do I mean? When selling your TT you might be confronted with a used market which doesn´t gives you the value back your TT deserves. In the case of very high rated TTs I made the experience you can sell those instruments to a very small niche of people - but you can!
In the case of TTs between 8000 and 14000 Dollars (crazy world - it is a lot of money) and if the buyer doesn`t agree on the value of your TT (because there are to many in the market or the manufacturer sells new units with large discount)it might become difficult selling your high rated machine.
If I am buying another TT I will look on the VALUE of the TT much more as I used to do. This would be my advise from my recent experiences. |
