Upgrade from Audio Physic Virgos to ???

Hi Folks:
I've been enjoying my Audio Physic Virgo IIs for about a year and a half now, but am getting the upgrade bug. I'm keen to hear some upgrade suggestions. I love the Virgos, especially the soundstage they provide. However, I'm assuming that with more $$ I should be able to get even speaker for my money. I'm particularly interested in hearing from ex Virgo owners who've upgraded and have been happy with their new speakers. I'm also particularly interested in high efficiencey designs as I may move to lower output amps like SET or OTL. A couple of speakers I'd be interested in are JM Labs Mezzo Utopia, AP Avanti III and Coincident Total Eclipse. My room is relatively small though (the Mezzo Utopia may be more appropriate given room restrictions) at about 14by16 feet. Current system includes Blue Circle BC2 amps (75wpc, class A), Supratek Syrah preamp, YBA CD1a cd player, Teres 135/OL Silver/Shelter 501mk2 vinyl rig. Thanks,
Ad3dd209 f1c2 428b 9060 a6e7ac9e0ed0outlier
Outlier, could you indicate the way to convince you to NOT change the speakers, for now, and concetrate room acoustics, wires, s/ware -- or whatever will keep your upgraditis bug at bay? You have a very well balanced system with top notch components. Bear with me, just buy music instead of h/ware; try it for a few months, then come back! OR, try diy cables --just for fun it might tame the upgrade bug(I tried it, it worked) . Cheers
Hey GregM, thanks for the good advice. Yea, I might consider just holding still with the speakers if the upgrade would be too expensive for a small improvement, but I'm really keen to see if such an upgrade would make a significant, material impact on the sound. My budget would likely be about $5k for a used set of speakers. In terms of acoustic treatment, I just ordered some today believe it or not. I'll see how it works out - it's ProForm stuff from Audioadvisor. The price seemed really cheap - $149 for twelve 24inch by 24inch foam treatments. I'm excited to try them. Also, I plan on upgrading my turntable next month from Teres 135 to 245 which should set me back $1,100 but I'm finding it real hard to fight that upgrade bug ;-)

Finally, on the cable front, I think things are 'in hand' there. I'm using FIM Gold PCs for power amps, a far cheaper Shunyata Sidewinder for preamp, but I think my preamp is rather indifferent to PC used, so I'm not sure money will be well spent on upgrades there. For ICs and SCs I use 47Labs OTA Sakura. I'd be keen to try upgrades there but I'm not sure if I'll get much improvement without spending a lot of money. I'm open to ideas though. Thanks!
The acoustic stuff will keep you going. Amazing results, believe it or not! Try Rives' site for some info & guidance on that subject.
IMHO pls don't sink 5k hardearned $ in speakers. If anything, try a subwoof, i.e. don't buy one, just borrow one. The Teres upgrade will make a difference. What can I say, in my book you've got a "textbook" system. A Neuance shelf under my TT & CDP & pre made a difference; maybe equip support could yield that extra sonic ounce from the system! Cheers
About 2 years I went from virgo II's to Wilson Watt/Puppy 6's. Wow. Should be a good match with your current set up. 6's are pretty reasonable used. Bass will extend much lower, better detail, better transients, more focus. Stage and depth some, what you have a pretty good at imaging!
Outlier -
I'd agree with other comments that getting the "synergy" right will provide you more improvement for $'s than simply replacing Virgos.

Two years ago, I compared Virgos II to JMLab Mini Utopias and bought Mini Utopias. Now that I have Meadowlark Osprey, I realize that a really good full range speaker is better than a superb speaker that only goes to 45hz. If you love the Virgos for the soundstaging then suggest you audition the Alon Lotus Elite Signature. While not as good at soundstaging as the Alon I found the Osprey a more complete speaker.

What rack are you using ? I had an Arici 4 shelf which made a significant improvement. Four months ago I went to RixRax Hoodoo partly due to usability issues. And it is also outstanding. With your Teres, using really good rack and/or shelf can make a big difference.

Are you using a power conditioner ?
I had AudioPrism Foundation 3 for last 3 years then bought a used XE-12. The XE-12 made a audible improvement. Since you are considering going to HT then getting a really good 8 or 12 outlet device would provide you significant improvement. Jim Weill told me that 12S is noticeably better than XE-12.

Another relatively inexpensive audible improvement, for me, was moving from BDR cones to StillPoints under my XA777es and ZH-270.

If you want to go with Coincident speaker then suggest you talk with Israel Blmue and audition the MP300B. If you like the sound then sell your BC2 mono amps.

- Ken
I went from Virgo I through various contenders (Avanti is a big, bad Virgo; Coincidents are, by "coincidence" very much like Virgos) before settling on W/P 7s. The Wilsons were the only speakers that could equal the imaging of the Virgos and surpass their range, dynamics, resolution, coherency and overall musical involvement. I wholeheartedly agree with Jfrech that a used pair of W/P 6s could be the quantum leap you seek. Your BC2s would make them sing whatever song your limbic system can handle.

I also have Virgo II, and I would not change them. By the advice of a friend I tryed to put Marigo dots and driver bands on my speakers and the improvement was huge, more bass and even more sound stage, more dynamics - cost only about 300 USD. I also use Enacom Speaker, that fits with the Virgos.
If u try these u would not be disappointed.
add a sub (better yet a pair of subs)to the Virgos and you will have a world class speaker system...IMO
Thanks for all the advice. The introduction of a power conditioner like the Sound Application may be a good way to go. I used to have a PS Audio powerplant but found it a bit problematic, and I found it only really helped the digital front-end (in my system anyway), and I listen mainly to analog now. The Sound Application stuff seems quite pricey though, for what may be a small improvement.

On the subwoofer front, I once had a REL Strata II, used with the Virgos, but I found the extra bass unwelcome. The RELs are supposed to integrate with a system better than any other sub, but I found the bottom end a bit boomy. Hence I sold the sub, and was happier with its absence.

Avanti may be a way to go because it's hopefully just 'more Virgo' but a bit more bottom end (but likley much more effectively integrated than adding a sub). I think the Wilsons are simply beyond my pricepoint. I could likely find the Avantis for less than $7k used, but the Wilsons would be a bit more. Also, I'm still very tempted by JM Labs Mezzo Utopia - it should match well with a movement to lower power SET or OTL amps over time too. Anyway, thanks again for the advice. Cheers,
I think the Meadowlarks might be worth considering.
I have (and enjoyed) the Virgo for one year;but total eclipse is other dimensions. Truly life-like. Night and day. Total is highly recomened.With solid state and SET.
hi everyone
i'm using my audio physic Temp IV for a year and now wanna upgrade to Virgo 25,but i do have a chance to have Focus audio master 3 ( 3 yr old but excellent
condition) at very good price less than 13 k.
is there anyone can give me some advice on whice i should go with?

many thanks
The best Audio Physic speakers are still the Virgo II and
the Caldera I and II. If you can get the Caldera (there is
no difference between I and II) you will be a happy guy.

thank you for your info regarding AP Cadldera.
but as i mentioned i do have chance to get focus audio master 3 at about 13k.
so compare with AP ,i don't know which is best choice
Hi Mikelikehk, To make a choice one need to know first what
to compare. In your case you should listen to both, at least. The Calderas can be get in Europe for +/- 4000 Euro.
So I assume that they are cheaper in the USA then Focus
Audio. To give you some impression about the Calderas they were meant to compete with Wilson's WATT/Puppy.

hi Nandric,
thank you very much for your help. I just listened to focus audio master 3 and i get so impressed about its tone.deeper. wild sound stage and very clean background compare with my audio physic temp iv. but i will shop around to find something fit me best.

thank you again
Why don't you check the new Avantera if you like Virgo?
Because Avantera is not available in canada
I'd love to hear the Caldera.

The Virgo II indeed are incredibly good speakers. I hear a lot of newer loudspeakers with higher pricing and a lot of panache that don't make music the way the Virgo II do.

Also, the second (I think) iteration of the Tempo, featuring the entire baffle sloped in black finish with tastefully wood veneered top/sides sound terrific. Truly, a real sleeper. I have seen them for sale here occasionally, and like the Virgo II, at most attractive pricing.

For those who feel they cannot compete in this hobby for lack of funds, I urge you to seek out these Audio Physic models.
Boenicke audio b10