I’m impressed, some excellent suggestions! You have your work cut out for you, this will keep you busy for a while I would imagine. Take your time and listen closely. I would start with imhififan’s idea first just to eliminate the possibility of driver phase error. Nothing else will help much if this is the problem! Good luck.
Underpowered?
Hi guys. Newbie here asking for advice.
I recently purchased a pair of B&W 702 Signature (8Ω, 30-300W, 90 dB) to replace my old faithful 683s (8Ω, 20-200W, 90 dB). I am running them with a McIntosh MA252 (100W into 8Ω, 160W into 4Ω). I purchased them thinking they would complete my end-game system. However, my excitement turned into disappointment when I realized the lows were somewhat lacking. For all their faults, the 683s had a great dynamic low kick (no sub) that I was looking to take one step further. Unsurprisingly, the highs and mids on the 702s were indeed more detailed and separation was clearer, but I couldn't get over the uninspiring lows. I found myself listening at higher volumes chasing for that bass oomph. Neither playing with the EQ at the source nor the amp was satisfactory. So, I did the research that perhaps I should've done before purchasing the 702s and found out they are quite power hungry despite the specs being similar to the 683s. I emailed B&W and McIntosh and they agreed the amp is probably underpowered for the 702s. B&W described the sound of an underpowered speaker as one lacking low response and details, which is spot on. McIntosh suggested the MA352 (200W into 8Ω, 320W into 4Ω).
Of note, I love the MA252 and really wish there was a way to make this work. I don't need a DAC/streamer/etc so I'm happy to put all my money on better sound vs tech features. But I also think the speakers sound amazing even when somewhat underpowered and I'm considering upgrading to a MA352, Michi X3, Hegel 390. Another option could be to get a sub? But I feel that would defeat the purpose of having a 3way standing speaker and then I might as well get a pair of bookshelf speakers (805 D4s, LS50 metas?).
So what do you guys think? Is it normal for a speaker that's rated 30-300W to be underpowered with a 100W amp?? What would you do:
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Sell the 702s and look for a better match for my MA252?
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Upgrade the MA252 (MA352? Michi X3? NAD 33?)?
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Get a subwoofer?
I would really appreciate your thoughts/advice!
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- 90 posts total
I honestly don't think you are underpowered. What size room are you in and do you have an app to see how many decibels you are hearing? Please keep in mind that your speakers only go down to 46 hz or so. That's not low at all. From what I remember of the speaker (S2 version), the bass is very tight, but not 'full' like you'd expect a floor stander this size to have. Did a quick comp spec wise (not listening, just to show the difference in bass and efficiency). the 702 sells for $6K/pr. The Vandersteen sells for $3,600/pr including the stands. That's nearly twice the cost.
Vandersteen 2CE Signature III:
B&W 702 S2:
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@dridel Posts on how to 'fix' something, despite their validity and effectiveness, nearly always shine a spotlight on a fundamentally broken pairing. The speaker and amp need to be considered as one. Get this right.
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Sensitivity 90 dB ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sensitivity = Efficiency. Same deal Below 90db, = INEFFICIENT. 92db+ = High efficiency = more EFFECTIVE, = More functual = More musical. Ideal db sens is 93-95. Above 95 too high = too forward, too loud, sound attacks. Yeah yeah I know horn folks love their 100 db speakers,, a SPL blast I could not deal with for longer than 1 hour. THe ideal, if not perfect speaker design are the Full range single driver, invented wayyyy back in the late 1920’s in Berlin and Chicago. IMHO these speakers are the most musical, most practical, most enjoyable. ...of any speaker design. btw I just recently discovered, FR work best in open baffel. These complex horn boxes which are very expensive, I 'm not going for. Yeah yeah I know they do this horn thing for added bass. Just add a W6 FR, there ya got padded bass. |
- 90 posts total