un-becoming an audiophile


Yes, the title is what is sounds like.

I remember long ago, as a boy, I used to be able to enjoy music without picking apart a track. is the bass tight? is the midrange clear and life-like? is the treble resolution spot on? What about imaging/sound stage?

Most people have this very same superpower - not being an audiophile. They can play a song from the worst earbuds, laptop speakers, or even computer speakers - and enjoy the music; even sing along. They aren’t thinking about "how it sounds" or scrutinizing the audio quality. Actually, they couldn’t care less. They can spend their time on other life pursuits and don’t feel a need to invest big money (or much money at all) in the hi-fi hobby.

Any psychologists or scientists in the building? (please no Amir @amir_asr ) since you are neither! ...despite the word "science" being in your domain name - audio science review.

Please, I beg you. Help me get away from this hobby.

Imagine - being able to enjoy all of your favourite music - while still achieving that dopamine rush, along with serotonin, and even oxytocin - the bonding hormone, which can be released while listening to songs with deep emotional messages, or love songs.

We’re very much like food critics or chefs in a sense. We want the best of something (in this case, audio) I’m sure michelin star chefs face the same thing in their own right...can’t enoy or even eat the food unless it’s up to a certain standard.

When we audiophiles want to listen to music, we often play it on a resolving system, so as to partake in a a "high-end" listening experience. We often pick apart music and fault the audio components in our system, cables etc. All of this takes away from the experience of enjoying music as a form of art/entertainment. It has been said that some famous artists don’t even own a high-end audio system.

I gained a great deal of wisdom of from the documentary - Greek Audiophile. In it, we have audiophiles from all walks of life. Their families think they’re crazy for spending all this money on audio. They say it sounds "nice" or "real" but still can’t justify it.

I think it’s all in the brain. If we can reset our brains (or me at least) I can still enjoy music without needing a great system for it.

- Jack

 

jackhifiguy

good thread, lots of participation, many terrific points raised and discussed... very broad ranging

a few patently ridiculous, thoughtless comments as well... to be expected

all this should have each of us reconsider what enjoyment in this hobby is, can be, and whether we are achieving it in how we are each going about it... that is very positive

now if you’ll excuse me, i’m going to pour a glass of chateau margaux, taste a bit of keluga reserve, light a king o denmark, spin some liberace, and celebrate the ever widening first world income disparity reported in the latest issue of the economist...

celebrate the ever widening first world income disparity

irony or not: proves my point perfectly

It all depends on what scratches your itch. I got into hi-fi in a pretty serious way in the early ’70s, have had very good systems since that time and the opportunity to hear many, many more over the years. One aspect of the "hobby" is improving sonics. Nothing wrong with that-- in fact, if you devote the time and attention necessary, you can wind up with a pretty good sounding system, depending on set up and room. But that’s only one part of it--looking for the next acquisition, the next incremental improvement, comparisons among different pieces of gear or approaches. (I’m leaving the hard core DIY builders out of this for now).

In this context, the music is grist for the machinery-- used largely to assess sonic outcomes.

The same can be said for the pursuit of "the best" pressing; I know people in record collecting who are buying for sonics and some incremental difference in vinyl formulation, using the same metal work, may justify an outlay for yet another copy of an audiophile warhorse that everybody has and knows. There are collectors of the obscure, the valuable, ’78s, whatever, but I’m trying to keep this mainstream to what much of the audiophile market encounters.

I went off on a lark a dozen or so years ago, coinciding with my retirement, to curate the many thousands of records I had accumulated since the ’70s. It was an education. I replaced some copies, got rid of others and opened myself up to a whole world of other music that had not drawn my attention-- post bop jazz, that fits somewhere short of "free" jazz and includes soul, funk and other elements, often under the rubric of "spiritual" jazz. This eventually became a highly collectible area and less fun because of the prices. (Condition is always an issue).

I then had an epiphany- a lot of what I like about this pursuit has to do with the story behind the recording- how it was made, who the players were, what technology was used to make it. This is in some ways an intellectual pursuit but it is adding immensely to my enjoyment.

You can have more than one "goal" in this hobby- I do--I’m less about acquiring new gear for the sake of climbing higher on the mountain- my vantage point is pretty good where it is. I still buy records but have slowed down given the inflation of the used record market in the last few years. I will buy a rare record on occasion simply because I want it, but I buy them to play, not simply as some sort of "investment." (I don’t consider much of this stuff today to be an investment at the high mark ups in today’s market).

You are the one who decides what is important to you and how you want to spend your time. I was recently fascinated by the story of Joe Bussard, who collected old blues records- he did it purely for enjoyment and had a great collection of extremely rare records. He passed away recently and those records will be sold.

To me, it’s all a learning experience. I’ve gone through periods of my life where I didn’t have the time to pursue this stuff and other times where I was extremely active. I guess part of it is changes you go through as a person-- you evolve, so it isn’t surprising that your views and approach to this pursuit should change and evolve as you do.

To me, the ultimate engagement is making music. I don’t consider myself to be more than adequate these days on keyboards and play guitar more for fun than any serious effort to get "better"-- but there is huge joy in that even as a rank amateur.

Keep changing, keep thinking, keep evolving-- it’s the only way we stay vital. And it should be fun. If you aren’t having some fun, take a pause. That’s been part of the process for me as well.

Hey, a few minutes ago I was on my back porch, merrily sawing away on the best of my three fiddles (none of which, BTW, are the least bit high-end). Letting my fingers do the walking, to borrow an old cliche. What can I say? Music just makes me happy.

@grislybutter I was simply asking if $3500 was meant as an example of a little or a lot. 

For new retail, that is about my minimum for something I want to listen to for a long time. It would only be half that for used gear. 

@whart thanks for suggesting those key treasures of “ Spiritual Jazz “ what seems as a decade ago…. I know a guy @sbank  you should Know…. And again thanks for connecting me with Max…. Lord of great pressings….

oh the list is long…. But wait….. I’ve got to fit the mold of lonely…

”ain’t nobody loves me cept my Momma… and she could be Jiiving too “…

BB

@russ69 , lurching back to your comment on system cost v. enjoyment of same, the 'time v. money' issue can lurk...

....and sometimes you may have those other objects and/or activities that lurk, beckon, or demand attentions of sorts....in a way too similar a fashion.

I just grew tired of pursuing the bleeding edge and the cost of the tickets.

Now I just amuse self and enjoy the music, the 'means v. why' and the latter still wins. ;)

At a certain point, while reading the forums and learning about audio, I realized I did not want to be an audiophile, just as you’ve put it, to the point where it intrudes on simple enjoyment of music.

By then it was too late, I had already become one.

I had to make a conscious decision that there are times to be critical and times to put that aside.

That doesn’t mean that the critic is subdued completely, but it’s a habit that can be developed that puts the critic back into proper perspective.

Like meditation: one decides to sit quietly for five minutes without thinking, and simply ‘be’.

A thought occurs, ‘Did I pay the gas bill?’

The mediator says, ‘I can think about the gas bill all I want in five minutes, but now I will not.’

The Buddha spoke of it as an exercise, like lifting weights, but for the mind.

So, I’m still always hyper-critical, but I don’t dwell on it as I used to.

I focus on the music and all the things my system does well.

I recall the years of listening to garbage-quality audio and the really cool thing I’ve put together that makes music fun like I needed it to be.

Incidentally, I initially misread the topic as ‘unbecoming OF an audiophile’, like ‘unbecoming of an officer.’

And I thought, Bose?

@bolong …nothing could be further from the truth!  Most musicians could give a crap less…they live music.  

@prndlus So very well said! What people often seem to be complaining about -- when they're not shouting "It's a conspiracy by the industry!" (LOL), is that they cannot control their own minds. Instead of owning that (as you have) they blame the hobby or say it's not a hobby. Flagrant displays of ressentiment, if you ask me.

 

I had to make a conscious decision that there are times to be critical and times to put that aside.

That doesn’t mean that the critic is subdued completely, but it’s a habit that can be developed that puts the critic back into proper perspective.

Audiophiles are entry-level. You can grow out of it and see the light. Ignore the weak chinless dynamics in a box for car prices ignore the 3ft tall audiophile towers ignore the cables that cost more than a nice Ducati. Ignore the giant class-A amplifiers that use as much power as your dryer. Consider horns a small tube amp and just enjoy music in your life.

I listen a lot in my car. I have an Audi that has an ok B&O system. Lots of music on my iPhone. Drive fast listen to music! At home I have a Naim Muso v.2 sounds ok. I try not to listen critically. I have a big system too. But I’m waiting for new speakers and I haven’t listened to that system in months. 

I started enjoying music and getting lost in it early in life, singing in a choir, I have played music and sung my whole life, music is how the "Light Gets In" and the magic begins. Reading these comments brings a smile to my face. Its the music that's important, and enjoying it as best we can, live is best, playing and singing, a good sound system, what we can afford it's all part of that smile.

Are there any women audiophiles?

Never see them at the shows. Seems it's a lot of older men with money who have nothing better to do with it.  
 

And they're listening rooms only have one chair which is profoundly sad.

@jumia very true! 

At least I have a couch. Working on a sweet stretch vs a sweet spot.

This thread seems like a good place to share my recent experience listening to an inferior system than I usually do and enjoying the heck out of it. I was recently tasked with doing some quick evaluation of a Denon PMA-900 HNE stereo receiver. Just as a start I hooked it up to some Sony SSCS-5 speakers I happened to have and their matching 10" subwoofer. I wasn't feeling well this weekend - a little stomach bug and I wrenched a tooth really hard - ouch! So I spent the weekend listening to this setup, playing music, watching movies, playing games. I could hear all it's limitations immediately. The Sonys were a big step down from the Revel M16s I had been using just prior, and those were a big step down to my ears from the big full range horns I'd been playing. The Sony's are not particularly realistic in tone, not very clear or extended in the bass, not loaded with sublime micro-dynamics. A little "foggy" sounding. Not goosebumps inspiring.  Despite all that I came to the surprising conclusion that I very much enjoy listening to this inferior system. How can that be? It doesn't sound as good but I enjoy listening to it so much, in some ways more! I think it's partially because it disarms me. It humbly presents the sound with it's modest capabilities and I quit analyzing it, allowing me to get out of the way of myself and enjoy the music. The other thing I suspect is it just has a good balance of faults, none of which are too extreme, that make it all come together in a much more pleasing way than I would have expected. I get the feeling that a lot of content was expected to be heard on a setup like this. 

@johnk 

Audiophiles are entry-level. You can grow out of it and see the light.Audiophiles are entry-level. You can grow out of it and see the light.

Way to lump everyone together so you can tell them what to do. 

I think we need to think about finding a more flattering term. The word audiophile is not the greatest.

We are connoisseurs of music that is re-created exceptionally well to inspire Great interest while listening. I’m not sure many know what the hell audiophile means as well as many who care not to referred to as such.

audiophile

noun

au·​dio·​phile ˈȯ-dē-ō-ˌfī(-ə)l 

a person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction

the Lady with THE Strad

has a wonderful system ( and room )

the difference

between… any… and many

You can critically listen and enjoy music simultaneously. I never knew this was an issue for some. 

It’s not an issue. It’s just someone who has decided to give up on the hobby trying to get some mental and moral support to complete the process. Simple.

Step #1: Give up, sell everything, go “small”

Step #2: Continue to frequent audio forums every single day, declaring everything is snake oil, evil people out there to take your money. Read measurements in the internet, embrace ASR

I have seen this transformation happen over and over again during the past many years.

P.S. I would say this: make sure the gas bill is paid before you buy any audio equipment. Highly recommended 

If the sibilants aren't spitty and the violins aren't gritty I'm a long way toward nirvana. Add some imaging and I'm another large step closer.

I don’t understand anything in this thread, its so much easier just to watch TV.

Of course the sound quality of everything I watch on TV has to be on a system that costs a ton of money.

Does that make me a lunatic or an audiophile?

 

@thyname 

It’s not an issue. It’s just someone who has decided to give up on the hobby trying to get some mental and moral support to complete the process. Simple.

They have my support. If chasings sound quality is getting in the way of their enjoyment of music and they're not happy about it, then I'll encourage them to at least take a break from the audiophile hobby. An alternative might be to take a different approach to the hobby. Don't analyze the sound directly. Just listen to music for a while and reflect on the quality of the inner experience afterward. What did it do to them? Was it a good time? Did their mind go to that special place? If not, maybe try switching some things out at random. It might not require going upscale at all. The right combination of simple components in a particular room might just work musical magic for them without requiring any specific sonic excellence. If they find something basic that works, no need to analyze. Just enjoy. If after a while they feel the urge to experiment further with sound quality even though they're having a great time, then I think they've got their mind in the right place to continue enjoying music while they pursue the audiophile goal of ever higher sound quality.

 

If chasings sound quality is getting in the way of their enjoyment of music and they're not happy about it, then I'll encourage them to at least take a break from the audiophile hobby. 

Agreed.

 

@dayglow

You can critically listen and enjoy music simultaneously. I never knew this was an issue for some.

True. I have experienced myself becoming so critical in my listening at times that I’m impossible to please. I think I hear a problem and I become obsessed with trying to understand what I think I’m hearing and fix it asap. This can involve many hours of effort to no avail, only to find that the next day I’m happy again with the sound. If you can be critical, notice a problem, but not become obsessive about it to the point that you are no longer enjoying the music, then I think that’s a healthy perspective. Of course if there can be problems that are extreme, like loud and scary pops and crackles coming through the speakers, or smoke and bad smells coming from the amplifier. Those kinds of problems should be distracting.

On one of my better days I noticed something very off about the sound but just made a mental note of it and let the album I was listening to play through. I was in the musical magic zone and not going to interrupt it for a sound quality issue. Afterward I discovered it was a bad connection to one of the tweeters. 

I have come to the conclusion that I am never going to be an “audiophile” in the sense that many others on this forum are.  I set a budget of “good enough . . . certainly better than anything I’ve ever had before”.  I’m not going to keep auditioning or buying other equipment in search of something,  Unless I decide that a new purchase is “worth it” and fits in my budget, I’m standing pat and enjoying the music.  

One consideration is acknowledging that I’m 68 and only going to live so long.  No matter how much pleasure I get from my equipment, usually other people don’t care about that — they have other interests and consider my stuff an ordeal to have to get rid of.  They likely won’t appreciate the resale value of things like hifi equipment and will sell to the first buyer.  That will be a big enough loss with my current equipment, but to think what they might accept for an amplifier or loudspeakers that cost $20,000 each — they wouldn’t even know how to go about selling such items for anything reasonable. If I had a large record collection that I invested a lot of money in, that might even be hard to sell unless they know how to go about it.  I do plan to leave directions for my heirs regarding things like this, but mostly I just want to make settling my estate as easy for them as I can.  They will already be stressed, and I don’t want to make it more painful for them.

@asctim    I have always known the potential of my system(s) due to not frequently changing my components just making small tweaks. Recording quality and power issues are my pet peeves. Why? Very little(if anything) can be done with these issues. I want to be in control of the sound of my system not the power company or a poor recording engineer. If something is not right I want it to be MY error not placing blame on the gear/dealers ect. With time, research and knowledge I will find a way to correct any issues. When my system is in top form and playing a well recorded disc everything is right in my "Audiophile" world.

@bob540 

The problem of leaving an equipment mess behind for others has been on my mind too. I've built some huge speakers that are a pain to move around. I don't know if anybody will want them after I'm gone. Will they end up in a landfill? Heck, I'm almost done with them. I'm the kind of audiophile who  likes to tinker, do weird things that nobody else does to see what happens. No matter how good it sounds, I'll be interested in trying something else. I've got a new speaker project in mind, trying to resist starting on it too soon. More thinking it through, less cutting wood. It's probably going to be something nobody else in the world will ever want. 

So I don’t understand this audiophile stuff. To be one of these you mean I have to listen to certain things in a different way and be very critical.

I have to listen to discern how the flute sounds in relation to the trombone, and then I need to be able to figure out where these instruments are located between themselves because depth and position of an instrument are somehow very important if I am a Audiophile. Spatial placement of all the instruments is ever so important to know.  I think these people with all this critical listening crap might be neurotic and really stressing themselves to death and influencing others about how they should be doing critical listening. And somehow decay is really really important and I really need to measure this? And who are all these people analyzing a room to place acoustical panels ever so properly given that most rooms we have Systems in are profoundly limited in terms of where the stuff can be placed. I love how their rooms are basically empty except for hi-fi systems and acoustical panels and that single chair scientifically measured to be placed perfectly in a room.

Who the heck puts tape on the floor to properly position speakers and really is this supposed to be a good thing to do because you can’t listen for yourself.


does anyone really know what any of this is all about?

@ dabel: On Page 1 of this thread, in your comment to @bigtwin, you Waxed Eloquent!

@thyname 

Please excuse my being nosey, what is meaning behind your moniker/ handle ‘thyname’?

@bob540 +1 ... but if you’re living healthy, eating protein and veggies, doing a little weight-bearing exercise along w some walking, you could have another 20+ years, BUT, that said, I agree it’s good to prepare.

At age 60, I have been going through the same thing, preparing my trust documents... should have done it years ago. What really threw a wrench in and slowed me down was trying to figure out how to best distribute my physical possessions; the money assets aspect was much easier to figure. What to do exactly w my nice stereo gear? Who would most "deserve" and appreciate inheriting it?

I really had a hard time with that, and it caused me a lot of anxiety... but then it gradually dawned on me: nobody I know cares about it, really. My spouse would like some of it, but would rarely use it w/o me there. Sure, they know it’s "nice," but they wouldn’t necessarily care to have it, wouldn’t want to bother w it, most likely ... they stream bluetooth to their soundbars, if that, or listen on their stupid phones.

So, that realization made it easier: directed my trust to have my durable power of finances decide what she wants, if anything, and then three others in order get to choose... and after that, it will all just be lumped together with all my other physical possessions to be sold off, the money then going to the trust through which the money will be distributed exactly like I directed for the other financial assets. (charitable remainder trust annuities for my sisters for income, no lump sums; once my sisters are gone, then the Nature Conservancy keeps the cash to buy critical habitat and preserve it -- sorry nieces and nephews, you’re on your own, so reap what you yourselves actually sow, lol)

It was actually kind of eye-opening, and a relief: nobody besides myself actually cares about my gear, really. They like it when they hear it, but they wouldn’t necessarily want it. Too much hassle for ’em, not worth the trouble. Yes, I’ve mentored a couple people along the way towards simple, quality smaller systems; I’ll settle for that torch-passing. So, "what to do w my gear once I’m gone" became easy on my mind, instead of troubling.

Over and out; time to do some reading w classical radio station playing softly through my Heresy IVs ... 

@uncledemp : My guess is not what you thought 😂😂. from a long time ago in the forums when I was young and cocky. Then it stuck. Favorite track from my favorite band:

https://youtu.be/55ISbbSopXA

Haha, yes, not what I thought. Mine is a silly name my Dad would call himself when he was alive.

 

@erictal4075,

It’s a Life Sentence ... you feel it, I feel it, and everyone else here feels it! Best if we just except it. Only difference being, we are, our own Judges. Nice feeling :-)

Un-becoming? Ain't gonna happen ............

I refuse to beat myself up black-and-blue over my silly habit. I enjoy the heck out of listening to my stereo and to all the music I've collected over the decades. It's a constant source of pleasure. I don't fret over the money I've spent on it over the years. I applaud the efforts of both the artists who create the music and the engineers who create the hardware that enables me to enjoy that fine music in my home. They haven't stolen my money. They've earned it.

@grislybutter Once again I have to ask, "How hard is it for you to wake up every morning?" Your self flagellation is laughable. There are several problems with your thinking process, the first being is it is none of your business what other people do with THEIR money. The problem with you and your ilk is this belief that there is a limited amount of wealth and someone having a portion of it excludes others from having it. Have you ever considered the jobs created by this hobby? From the designers and mfgs right down to the people who make the transistors, capacitors, paper cones and whatever else goes into a system are all employed and able to participate in upward mobility on their own terms. If someone's plight in Bangledesh is poor how is this your fault or mine? Most of the world's poor are poor because of bad policies adopted by their governments or this belief in a class system which keeps people in a box. Or because of ideological beliefs such as thinking there are masterminds who know what's best for us instead of ourselves. My suggestion? Sell all of your worldly belongings, go on a hunger strike and protest your self perceived injustices until you no longer exist. Leave the rest of us alone.

My audiophile experience is this- I've always enjoyed music and after I stopped blaming others for my lot in life I started changing my lot. Then I was in a position where I was able to invest in my enjoyment as I SAW FIT. 

Post removed 

@fertguy, Three Dog Nights' first LP wasn't released until October of 1968. Unless you may of heard them at JD's in the river bottom, live. Was it another artist? 1967 was the 'Summer Of Love'...AB

@grislybutter Once again I have to ask, "How hard is it for you to wake up every morning?" Your self flagellation is laughable. There are several problems with your thinking process, the first being is it is none of your business what other people do with THEIR money.

@dadork

well said, seeing that person’s posts, i have had some of same feelings that you expressed... but mostly the utter lack of a sense of humor is remarkable and regrettable

........

all this said, i suppose everything in this thread falls in the category of first class problems that most folks in the world would love to have -- if someone is here on this forum reading and posting, life can't be that bad, right?

arizonabob

I was guessing at the year. We had just moved into our new house. Had it off a bit.