discopantshttps://youtu.be/3z-egjDoR1Q This is Peter Lyngdorf he’s going on about a hifi system that is pitched at the very high end of the market but 17:45 he rambles on about exactly how sensitive our hearing is and he makes some powerful analogies.
Thanks very interesting video and what he said(the numbers) about seeing and hearing is very illuminating.... Trust in our own hears is the ONLY way to enjoy music, not so much and mostly because they are truthful, but because our ears are the only master of our own musical experience....Even if we are older... :) |
Thanks discopants And thanks djones51My philosophy is simple: 1-Hi-FI is lower cost than anything you had ever dream of... 2- Buy only what is rightly chosen and after that think and read and buy no more... 3-Owning a very good Audio System, like most of us own one already, is only the beginnings of fun: how to embed it is the goal....Using cheap materials and the ears... If someone mock your ears with a measure apparatus, answer him that only you know how your audio System really sound in your room with all these numerous, unmeasurable simultaneous, parameters at play in the 4 embeddings in place... Anyway: «Human hearing beats the Fourier uncertainty principle» by Lisa Zyga , Phys.org In this article(2003) it was explained why the human ears is all we need, to embed our own audio system and what are some of his capabilities... Trust yourself and music will sound beautiful for your ears .... https://phys.org/news/2013-02-human-fourier-uncertainty-principle.html«For the first time, physicists have found that humans can discriminate a sound's frequency (related to a note's pitch) and timing (whether a note comes before or after another note) more than 10 times better than the limit imposed by the Fourier uncertainty principle. Not surprisingly, some of the subjects with the best listening precision were musicians, but even non-musicians could exceed the uncertainty limit. The results rule out the majority of auditory processing brain algorithms that have been proposed, since only a few models can match this impressive human performance. » This is all that we must know... |
It kind of helps if you know what you’re doing. Very well said and better than all my posts.... Thanks :) |
No pills needed at all,
Eating carrot treat your eyes,
Eating some fish will do,
If you eat too much meat...
No recipe will do,
if you do no more poo,
Choose good habit, exercise,
And measure each idea,
With your beating heart....
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Instead of speaking of "tweaks" like some improvised, trying, costly, improving miracles incomprehensible solutions; I speak about 3 embeddings( or 4 the acoustical problem being double side) for an audio system, and of the way to systematically, experiments with ears, a continuous improving increased with only low cost materials and homemade solutions...
Never mind any tweaks.... No tweak by itself will resolve the embeddings problem...
How do we insert an audio system in an electrical grid ? How do we transform the acoustics of the room where it will be playing ?How do we controls the internal resonance of each piece of gear and mechanical vibrations of the street, the house, the desk etc. where this system is?
ALL this 3 problems are so connected to one another that NO isolate tweak will do the job alone and be optimal by itself alone...
The implementation must be step by step, and the ears must use each tweak against other tweak, in an improving and compensatory process where each solution complement another, for an optimal solution in the 3 dimensions (mechanical, electrical, acoustical)...
And you know this cost almost NOTHING.... I bought anything except cheap materials...
This is the basic audiophile problem....The embeddings dimension...
Forget costly tweaks …. Remember that most of the times your system is already very good but badly embedded...
This is my experience...
The S. Q. /price ratio is not linear.... The embeddings solutions made the difference and narrow the gap between low cost system and costly one most of the times....Engineering design, if we stay and compare products on the same rung of the scale, cannot give an improvement comparable in each of the 3 rungs scale, low Hi-Fi, mid, and high costs, to a rightfully embed audio system compared to one that is not in the same rung.... Engineering so good be it cannot make miracles and replace the 3 optimal embeddings audible qualitative powerful effect.... In the future with A.I. probably.... But we are not there....
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For those without money.... Use ebony block ( aliexpress) with Herkimer diamond..... :)
This will replicate Shun Mook...At lower cost....
Because Geoffkait is right.... :)
Moh of real diamond is 10
Moh of H.D. is 7.5
Topaz will perhaps fare better than HD. a little harder and cheap...
But I bet that will do a great job....
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I am sure that oregonpapa solution is also very good and simpler....The price is doubled tough.... :) Pick the one you feel the best for you.... My salutation to you oregonpapa… By the way, I tried granite as suggested above, and while the midrange and top-end improved, the bass was almost nonexistent. .Granite plates must not be directly under the speakers I used them to stabilise on top of the quartz feet and to put sorbothane between them to decouple and couple with all these different materials: bamboo, cork quartz sorbothane, granit…. My bass is clear and astonishing....I even disconnect my subwoofer and use it no more.... if money is no problem try Ebony wood also But my desk is not a floor.... Try oregonpapa method it is also more esthetical.... |
I will try sorbothane feet on the pre, DAC and amps next. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Low cost and efficient.... try a sandwich of quartz feet , very small one, on top granite plate, sorbothane duro 70 on top, another granite plateon top, on top a cork plate, on top a bamboo plate, sorbothane duro 70 under the speakers.... If you can load the speakers with some load on top it will be better... ( 60 pounds for me on each speakers) All in all that cost me under 100 dollars....My speakers are on the same desk than my computer and dac and amplifier.... They are relatively big Mission Cyrus 781 speakers with great bass.... at any volume with one finger on my desk I sens no vibrations at all.... There is some but under my finger capacity to sense them.... Resonance vibration controls is 20% of S. Q. ….30% is electrical grid controls and filtering...%0 % is acoustical treatment active and passive... There is another possibilities a quartz sand wooden box under the speakers will do.... |
There exist only 3 possible sources of joy in audiophile hearts:
1-Buying the most expansive and at the same times best pieces of electronic components there is for your audio system...With no systematic controls means of the 4 embeddings because they dont feel the necessity after having bought the best products...
2-Creating yourself the best possible at a ridiculous price....
3- Buying the best because they can afford it and knowing how to embed it in the optimal way... ( the rarest among these crowds)
I dont have money but I am creative and my only possible source of joy is 2...
Navigating audio forums gives me the idea that most are in the 4th rung...
4- buying relatively hyped for the mass products and using them with almost no embeddings controls means... Being frustrated at the end and after one year upgrading in a cycle raging urgency to live Hi-Fi experience without having any ideas how to makes it happen....
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S.Q. increase in the 3 main embeddings with a relatively optimal tweaking in place in my own audio system :
20% mechanical(resonance-vibrations)
30% electrical grid
50% acoustical field of the room
Remember that this % is only an indication and can be qualitatively misleading...
For example vibrations resonance problems are less impactful than the acoustical non treated field in a comparative S.Q. scale evaluation...But in a treated acoustical field, an audio system with a non adressed mechanical problem will be less tone acurate with a more blurry imaging, and there will be a spectacular increase in S.Q. when the right tweaking will be implemented to address it...
Then all methods or tweaks are important, and these % ratios are only an indication of the relative importance of the 3 dimensional embeddings TOGETHER ( or 4 if we distinguish the passive way to treat room and the active way via S.G. or various active resonators or Helmholtz bottles etc )
Fine tuning an audio system implicate a systematic overview of these embeddings and of their mutual complementary interactions and feed back in the S.Q. audible effects "measured" by the learning and experimenting brain-ears...It is fun, cost me low cash, and I bought almost nothing except USB cheap S.G. (10 bucks each), all other materials is cheap and homemade except stones and crystals bought in China at low price...
Today with what I have learned, my audio system will cost : Amplifier, Dac, speakers, + all materials for treating the embeddings around 1000 dollars...
To upgrade with a significatively better one will cost me around $16,000 + all my controls methods for the embeddings which is the most important thing... I think that this upgrading is not necessary now because my actual system being very good as it is....Then when I read that someone has bought only a dac around 16,000 bucks, today I can smile without any frustration or enviousness, only the curiosity to listen to it if possible with a grain of skeptic salt about the Price / S.Q. ratio.... :)
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1- What people call "tweaks" are only one by one, each of them, some elements of some set of parameters in one of the 4 dimensions of the embeddings of any audio system... ( mechanical resonance, electrical grid, passive and active acoustical fields)
2- Sometimes not knowing these 4 dimensions of the embeddings, people call "tweaks" some crazy or less crazy inventions, simple or less simple device, most of the time not so cheap device, even costly...
3- Not knowing these 4 dimensions people dont work systematically in function of them and dont experiment the powerful transformation of their audio system linked to each of them...
4-Unconscious of the power of this 4 embeddings, people act and work on their system erratically and very approximatively and without being conscious of the powerful potential linked to these "tweaks" or various parameters of the embeddings ...People dont realize that these dimensions are complementary and works together toward the peak potential S. Q. of any system...
5- These dimensions I worked on them always with some homemade and very cheap materials... No "tweaks" I use were bought, except I use some cheap materials and electronic components I modified myself(10 bucks each for example for Chinese Schuman Generator) to linked all 4 embeddings...
Dont buy tweaks, replicate them , retro engineer them, invent your own....It is more simple than you imagine... I am in no way a very gifted manual worker....
6- The results is not a more or less slightly modified audible sound mostly but a complete transformation.... Calling that "tweaks" dont do any justice to the works and dont describe at all the way and method each one of us must takes to embed any audio system....
7- Experimenting and playing with these 4 dimensions is more fun than buying finished products and way more self gratifying....
8- No audio system sound at his top level out of the box and located in a non treated room... NONE...
9- Most people has never listen to their own system at all.... They dont know what their own system can deliver in quality....
10- 90% of any electronic component upgrading is not necessary, and if necessary is not made in a rational way or in a judicious way....It takes me 7 years to learn that and I pay the price.... My best to all....
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