When did we go from "it can't hurt" to "produces a HUGE improvement in the sound" when talking about tweaks? Was it the "Lead Balloon" that did it with turntables or the "Arcici" stands with the Quad electrostats, oh so many years ago? Was it "Tube Traps"? Was it magic bricks to put on top of power amps? Now days audiophiles seem to argue over the type of loop in the carpet of the listening room and its effect on sound. Anything that is exagerated becomes insignificant. Have audiophiles gone wrong somewhere? Why not admit there is no difference in the sound, you just want to be on the safe side?
just to be on the safe side, i removed ALL carpet in front of and between my speakers and replaced it with bent-grass sod. it was a real trick to adjust the sprinkler system so the overspray doesn't reach my amp but , now that the tweak is complete (the rfi filters on the gro-lites finally did it), everything seems to sound much more natural with greater "bloom." -cfb
now THAT'S funny. well done Kelly. I often think about your comment "you're not a tweak unless you rent a ditch witch for the weekend" and laugh my ass off
oh man that is too funny...
Kelly do you have a housebroken goat handy to keep the interior lawn trimmed?
Well Pbb I *hope* the Lead Balloon is all that you say it is... I just ordered one for my TT
Here's one point of view. Systems have been steadily improving and the proper "dressing" of components, wires, power conditioners, room acoustics have allowed tweaking to be heard in a manner we never really thought about until recently. And we're still finding many showrooms have bad sound with great gear? We're still learning. Even older gear can perform very well if we're very careful in setup and realize system setup can almost be an art in itself....the better the setup the more "magic" or difference the tweaking reveals and it can have a wow effect. I've done tweaking that was wrong, bad, no different , all the way to "I don't believe it" good.....I'm looking forward to eveyones comments on this one...good listening everyone as I get ready for the eastern storm coming though...
Cfb, the grass tweak works, but you really need to have a couple of Jersey cows to get fullest effect. Just make sure to dampen their bells. Plus, they create a coll mini-ecosystem...

I have found that sod with pink flamingos is the best of both worlds, its like using hybrid-jersey cows ;)
Kelly's system is a least grounded.
I don't know about all of this stuff. I can say that i am getting SO "pissed" about this "wire is wire" crap that i'm about ready to hook up my scope and start taking measurements / comparing waveforms for myself. Some of the differences that i've heard just HAVE to be measureable. I know that at least one speaker cable that i ran sucked the bass out of my system so hard that it was incredible. That one should be easy to document with an spl meter and a tone generator. Maybe i'll buy another set just to prove to myself ( and maybe a few others ) that i'm NOT nuts.... Sean
i'm with you, sean. since i don't have the knowledge to measure, tho, i'm left with parody. -kelly
Sean, can you test Kelly's lawn while you're at it. Seriously, though, your idea life easier for many of us -- and maybe provide some guidelines as to wire-system synergy...
Kelly: I usually strew the floor with freshly baked brioche. Your method seems to be much more practical, but does it sound as good?. I rate the brioche as a firm "7" (within its 24 hour life cycle). Afterwards the sound tends to get a bit stale though and then its time to make french toast.
Kelly, I hat to throw out the grass tweak. My back hurt too much from weeding and the noise the lawnmower made got the lady in residence so mad, she threatened to water the speakers. But yes, the bloom was incredible, but only until my dog found out.....
Cheers from Greenfinger
Kelly, I trust you'll be planting Petunias in the spring :~) I agree with KP on the cows, I use four myself, they make great low frequency tube traps down to 20hz. Just place one in every corner of your room. Sean, you may want to run some soil tests while you’re at it, nothing worst than high PH levels in a sound garden.
defy my logic.I may not be as knowlegeable,well versed,exposed etc as you guys but really can wire be worth $1K a meter?I mean aomebody get's a $5K speaker and spends $2K on each other component.Wouldn't that dough be better spent getting a better 1)Speaker 2)amp3)source?I just can't believe that a $1200 'table with a $500 speaker couldn't use a $750 cart or better 'table rather than a $500 piece of wire.When you look into a lot of (but not all) "high end" gear any refigerator/TV repair guy could tell you that a lot of the parts can be bought off the shelf a Radio Shack for 1/10 the list.This is bad enough but when you see how much some wire/stands etc cost it's just a missapropriation of funds into an overall budget that could be better used elsewhere.Wire and such can sound different but not neccesarily better.I just think the big changes with differnt speakers and amps make way more sense.
Properly set up gear is so hard to find.There are many stores that sell HIFI but very few who now how to really show it off.
Locally Alternative Audio have it down to an art.
8 rooms properly set up.
Any one within 8 Hours of Dundas,Ontario make a weekend out of it.USA Dollars go a long way in Canada.
Kelly, I have found that Kentucky Blue Grass works best with SS gear while Rye works best with tube gear! Also, one foot square sod plugs make EXCELLENT accoustic wall tile! Happy Tunes!
Don't do like I did and try to cut corners by using astro turf, it sounds completely hard and artificial. Might bleach it to see if it will sound less colored. Thanks for the tip about the flamingos, they brought out alot of subtle nuances in my system.
Sean, you are absolutely right on target. We hear differences and we don't know to what they should be attributed but we are confident that they exist. I think that's a given for most of us. It is where we go from there that makes the difference in our long-range understanding of good sound.

In the short run, these matters are easy: Try it. Like it? Got the cash? Do it.

In the long run, we need to continue to explore and measure and poke and prod and make careful comparisons. We need to be unafraid to put our subjective comparisons to the test, knowing that testing methods are imperfect but likewise not without value. We need to candidly acknowledge that:

(1) Some clearly discernible differences in sound exist that cannot be measured or least not yet, possibly never.

(2) Some perceived differences probably arise from a whole lot of extraneous factors such as how much we paid for our gear or how many hours we spent tweaking it.

Exploring these possibilities ought not be so intimidating to either EEs or GEs that they go into conniption fits of character assassination every time they come face to face.

Augustine said it: Love God and do as you will.
Kelly, if maintaining the health of your grass is of paramount concern, look no further than the 'Gon as there is no shortage of BS being bandied about here. Unfortuantely, Pbb, the same will be of little use in maintaining your reasoned and healthy sense of skepticisim about this hobby.
PBB ought to try Kelly’s set up but with some more robust varieties of sod... er, grass.

Northern Lights, Early Girl, or OS 1 exhibit excellent absorption and diffusion characteristics.

Only problems I've found are the extreme temperature in my listening room - (amps keep shutting down). I've learned to live with the noise of the ozone generator and the constant buzz of the grow lamps. …But these DAMN welders goggles I wear (to reduce glare) are hurting my face and breaking up the sonic images.

Aside from that it’s the best tweak ever.
Seriously, guys, tweaks are alot different from modifications, and it is worth speculating on their differences. One can easily see how the tweak enables many audiophiles to obey the Law of their Warranty (not to tamper with their component) while following their desire to somehow change the performance of their system in a sometimes obsessive way. From this perspective, the tweaker's literal obedience to the Law cannot but appear as the ultimate opportunistic manipulation, and even as a false relation to the intents of the designer of a component since a tweak implies a totally external relationship towards the component as a set of variables to be, well, tweaked, so that one can achieve one's own true aim, not the designer's. What bothers many DIYers and technicians who actually "modify" or "alter" their components about tweakers is probably the fact that the tweakers do not see the cheap trickery of their procedure, so that when they succeed in having their cake and eating it, in realizing their goal without disobeying the letter of their Warranty, they do not feel the need to go further and get their hands dirty by getting more serious.
Slawney, we need more of you here, especially if you've tweaked yourself to such excellent performance! Cheers,
Is he sitting on Vibrapods or spikes?

KP, I'm not sure..I suppose it depends, when on vibrapods, he seems of a more gentle disposition...... on spikes he's probably more astute......
That made sense...
I'm afraid...
very afraid...

KP, no need for it. I'm here. (o:
No fear, Slawney's on vibrapods. He sounds mellow (see post above). When he's on spikes, his dynamics increase but the disposition becomes harsh & piercing -- "astute", as Detlof notes in his diplomatic fashion.
Last time I counted, Slawney was on 52 Vibrapods (from #1 to #5) and about 24 spikes. But there are also air suspension systems tucked here and there. It was on the latter that he started to think of "tweaks" as inseparable from the so-called "consumer society," and the reign of generalized perversion in late capitalism, where people are weekly interested in gadgets and devices which not only allow them to live with their perversion, but even directly conjure up new perversions. Recall, in the sexual domain proper, all the gadgets invented to bring diversity and new excitement into sexual lives, from lotions that should enhance potency and pleasures to different outfits and instruments (rings, provocative dresses, whips and chains, vibrators, and other artificial prosthetic organs, not to mention pornography and other direct stimulators of the mind): they do not simply incite the "natural" sexual desire, they supplement it, giving it an irreducible, "perverse," excessive and derailed, twist. Tweaks--all this (often ineffective and repetitive) proliferation of audio gadgets--render most directly the "sex toy" in the world of audiophilia. Therein lies the entire libidinal economy of high-end audio consumption: in the production of objects which do not simply meet or satisfy an already given need, but create the need they claim to satisfy (the publicity for some tweaks actually operates in such a way that the consumer "becomes aware of dimensions of their audio system that there were not even aware they possessed"). Which is why these objects are no longer (as in the 1970s) contrained to the natural series of speaker, amp, turntable, but comprise the proliferating and increasingly autonomous (tweaks for tweaks!) market for a multitude of electro-mechanical audio sublimation, which, however, is correlative to a certain lack--the excessive consumption of "tweaks" functions as the reaction to a certain fundamental lack. Crucial here is the assymmetrical relation of lack and excess: the proliferation of "tweaks" generates a surplus-enjoyment which fills in the lack of enjoyment in one's system as it is "in the nude," and although these "tweaks" never provide the thing itself, although they are supplements which always fall short of full enjoyment, they are nonetheless experienced as excessive, as surplus-enjoyment--in short, in "tweaks," the falling-short of a system, the not enough, coincides with the excess of a system. Speculative as these propositions sound, they do render some audiophile's experience when they have recourse to the innumerable audio gadgets on the market: they are in excess of the basic system, they endeavor to give an additional "perverse" twist to out listening activity, yet, simultaneously, they are pale shadows that somehow lack the substantial density of the Real Thing.