TW-Acustic Raven AC3 latest version vs older

There are allot of owners of this table and AC along with others whom I'm sure can chime in with information and findings.

My understanding is the latest version of this table has gone threw some changes over the years and at least one of these can't be applied if you have an older table. (bearing)

-CONTROLLER UNIT, latest had TW engraved in the face plate. I have read that some prefer the older version, care to elaborate further.
Also some are using the Black Knights, care to elaborate on the sonic differences.


-ISOLATION FEET, anyone notice what effects these offer
also some have gone with the same ones used on the Black Knight

-MOTORS, I have three. I noticed viewing some other owners that the construction they seem to have less stainless steel base, anyone notice any diffferences sonically, if so what.

Some are using the Black Knights motor, what have you noticed to be the difference sonically

-BEARING, this is much more involved so not just an easy switch or ad on, my understanding you need a new platter etc. much more involved. The bearing is a different size and has isolation of some sort, tighter toilerances which in the end offers less noise.
If anyone has pictures or can elaborate better would be great and to see.
You can pm me personally if this is your preference.
Call Jeff of HIGHWATER SOUND he knows the answers.
I have the current AC controller version you mentioned. I have tried the Black Knight battery controller and in my system I preferred the AC version.

yes, the black Knight controller is blacker/quieter and a little smoother in the upper frequencies, it lacked the bass drive and dynamics of the AC. It also lacked the extenstion or air in the upper frequencies.
that lead to it being a bit boring and lifeless in comparison - not unsual for battery power devices.

I would like to try the BN feet, however - very expensive.
I am not sure what the standard feet are now for the AC, as the last feet were different again to my stillpoint copies.
Hi Downunder, thanks for that information, funny thing is after reading brought back old memories when I had battery powered pces, I recall similar findings so in the end even though the option offered some nice benifits for me was not long term.

Hi Ebm, any comment in relation to Downunder's findings, you are using the BN controller unit.

What feet is the BN using that are so exspensive?

How old are your tables? my understanding a major change was the bearing.
Battery is much better quieter depends on your system and ac lines. In my system its day and night.

Just sell your TW table and get the Black Night. You won't be happy till you get there. Ask 10 different people and you will get 10 different answers. So many of the changes are system dependent. But honestly some you will hear & some you won't. You are trusting other peoples systems, ears and when they did the upgrade. What if you upgrade the motor and not the bearing. What if visa versa.
Be a sport order a BLACK NIGHT from HIGHWATER SOUND then you will have the latest and the best.
Hi Dgad & Ebm,

thanks for the info.,I was just trying to educate my self and hoping others would chime in but this post has been pretty quiet.

I'm sure the Black Night is worth every penny of it's asking price but for now I would rather put the additional money I would pay for such into arms/carts combo's.
Or just do it my way..

TW with shinning armor
THE TW ACUSTIC 10.5 arm Would be a big upgrade.It was much better than my old arm.Thanks enjoy.
GREAT looking well done turntable Mesael im sure it sounds wonderful.
Mesael, very nice indeed! Tell us a little more ..

I see you have done your own arm boards, what do you have under the feet, what do you actually have your placed on.

I have mine placed on top of a custom made Minus K

What are your arm/cart combos
Hi Ebm, that is another arm that is on my list that I would like to have set-up with my AC3.

What carts have you tried with TW 10.5,your thoughts sonically over all, differences they offered.

I sold my Graham Phantom MK2, replacing it with a REED 12 inch, I'm going to pair it up with a My Sonic Lab cart. My friend has this combo and I really liked what I heard at his place.
Hi, Im using Transfigurations best. Arm better bass faster better imaging wider stage much more dynamic better highs cleaner better midrange.I have tried other arms this arm is in a class by itself works great with TW RAVEN AC table im sure it would work great with any great table. Thanks

Too many questions will get you too many different answers. I owned a MSL cartridge and didn't love it long term. Goes to show your own listening will say more (hopefully) than anything I or anyone else will say. Part of getting "there" (audiophile Nirvana or whatever it is) is the journey. And that Journey comes with mistakes and lessons and establishing your own personal likes and dislikes from experience. Analogue is more complex than you can imagine. You need to match all the elements. My recommendation for a great all around cartridge is a Titan i on almost any arm. For me a bargain for what you get. But looking on this forum you would think some others are better. I just don't agree with some of the opinions here. My point is you need to start playing around. Enjoy the journey.
Dgad, totally agree that you have to live with what ever it may be for some time and in your own set-up which I'm use to doing already.

Never mind everyone's over all set-up and tastes being different.

That's one of my main reason's not to go the BN route right now and just enjoy the AC3 which is a great pce and try some different arm and cart combo's and as you put it, enjoy the journey!

Thank's for the recommendation, a good friend has a Lyra Olympos mounted on a Schroder Ref on a AC table and I really like what I hear in his set-up but I know mine will be different. In the same set-up he also has the REED/MSL combo and I really like that also but out of the two SR/LO is my favourite by a bit on some music but vs/vs on other music but really I could live with either. For how long I don't know because it's his set-up and not mine, time will tell.

Looking at only having two arms on this table, the REED and MSL are on their way, still have my DYN XV-1s and looking at either the TW 10.5 or Teala arms.
Thanks Ebm, hi Dev,

The material for footers are carbon graphite. Got the idea from Boston Audio. But their tuneblock are a bit too think. If I will use them, I will also have the raise the height of the motors, doesn't seem a good idea.

The armboards are made from Gaboon ebony. Doesn't sound as fast as aluminum, but more natural and killer for vocals.

The arms are Grandezza with A-90, and Moerch DP-8 with Transfiguration Aria. While the Grandezza is the easiest to setup, the DP-8 is the trickiest.

Ebony armboard
Hi Measael, nice pic. Are you a machinest? Your stand, legs appear to be all milled aluminum.

What does the rest of your set-up consist of?

Both you and Ebm are using Transfiguration carts, I was doing some reading on them and they seem to have a following. Don't personally know anyone who has one, never heard one either.
Hi Dev,

Just an DIYer. Here's an old pix with CA Ambient on top.

I bought the Transfiguration Aria because it was on sale. Never heard any of its sibling. But my friend told me Temper is the best cart he has heard. To compare Aria with A-90, the Aria has deeper base, but I'm not 100% sure, cus it might be due to the Moerch DP-8. And I don't like to swap carts due to the delicate tonearm cable pins. But for overall tonality A-90 sound better.

Rock Rack
Hi Mesael, that's a mighty fine looking stand.
My cartridge is TRANSFIGURATION ORPHEUS with is very musical fast with wonderful depth stage macro and micro dynamics in the TW 10.5 arm sounds breathtaking.Happy New Year to all my TW ACUSTIC tuntable people be well.
Hi Ebm, your TW 10.5 arm what wire and termination connectors do they utilize.
Hi Ask Jeff of Highwater sound dont know the combo arm and wire beat my old wire that was $3800.00 which was a seperate cable.
Hi Ebm ,I'm thinking of the TW 10.5 for my Kuzma Stabi Reference.What arm did it replace in your system and your pro and con thoughts please.
Tw Acustics Raven AC3 and the Black Knights,a lot of passion has been written for these tables. Last summer while in New York I rang High water sound and popped by for a good long listen.
This was my second time meeting Jeff, the first was under show conditions, certainly not fair to be judicious.
To be honest these tables are not for me, but I had to hear it for myself under better conditions despite what others have typed so passionate about.

Initially what got my attention about TW Ravens was the other side of the coin with Audiogon members Sintax and Dertonearm with their incendiary comment's toward TW Raven including the owners. Well guys I guess each to his own but hey thats a lot of money for what I find ultimatley a boring sound.
Blackburn, you are what we call trolling, your posting was non constructive, not offering any info. in relation to the actual subject and this is only your second posting WOW! you are on a role.

You have already demonstrated that can't read and your other comments demonstrate you have no credibility, move on and don't waste our time with such nonsence.
I'm in the same boat with Blackburn, I found all gears I can't afford boring, hehe...
Dev this is non sense to you that I found these tables not for me and ultimatley boring?
Further , with these two comments alone demonstrate to you that I have no credibility and you find these comments acidic!!! WOW .

Let me ask you this, I read through most of the Raven threads and its apparent your group find acidic comments by Dertonearm and Syntax tolerable, another "WOW"

Perhaps I should apologize for being honest and follow my apologize with some hard advice, grow some thicker skin, I thought I could get you to think and ""hear for yourself"" and then maybe save you some money.

Love fest's like this just validated my early preconception of on line forums.
Need easy answers on how to build a audio system, just type in a question and choose the product with the most votes.
Blackburn thats only your opinion which by the sale of Black Knight and AC1 and 3 is very large.I own AC1 it was much better then my old top of the line table. what do you own?
Masael, that's good one.

Blackburn, again you are trolling and I'm embarrassed you are from the same country as me.

I really don't care what you have to say, you absolutely have no credibility.

You come to a forumn with only two posts and already being a d... please do us a favour and move on.

When you post READ the actual subject line first before you start pushing those keys and be constructive., neither of your posts in this thread are.
Dev, I am curious to learn whether you have had the 3 motors from the beginning or whether you worked your way up to 3 from one. There are many theoretical problems, or lets call them "issues" with 3 motors, and I wonder about your journey to get there. What differences did you hear with 3 motors vs one motor or 2 motors, if you ever tried either of the latter set-ups. Thanks.

For belt-drive, Dertonearm is a proponent of two motors set up at 180 degrees opposite each other, FWIW.
Hi Lew,
I worked my way up from 1 motor to 3 on my AC-3 and have tried it with the 180 degrees 2 motor set-up as well.
3 motors sounds best to these ears.

Hi Lewm, I don't have near the long term expearience of moost of the AC1-AC3 owners here on Gon, I first tried the Raven One and then moved right to the AC3 and that experience was huge difference in my set-up. A friend and member Glai has a AC1 and asked me to do some comparisons for him so I did.

In my set-up I only tried configurations one vs three, I really don't care about physics, theory etc. just the end result and to my ears I prefered the three motor. Don't know what's going on and really don't care but it was a pretty easy exercise.

F.Y.I. I actually just sold my AC3 which is a great table and I could have lived with it for a very long time, I truely enjoyed it's short term stay but if you refer back to my past threads you will read from the get go I was looking at actually getting the BK from the get go but decided to take my time and get my feet wet which I have and now have a BK on it's way. To be honest if I knew what I know now I would not have bought the Raven One because the info. I read was not accurate sugesting it sounds very close or similar to the Raven AC, sorry don't want t ostep on any toes but in my set-up there is no comparison so if I would have known that then I would have bi-passed it saving my self some time and money loss.

Looking forward to getting the BK, I'm also ordering the TW 10.5 arm which I'll pair up with my XV-1s cart latest version along with installing my REED 12" arm with MSL cart, well actually my good friend Rickmak will do the initial set-up and then I do minor adjustments dialing it in.
Well guys I wanted to update this thread.

I got my Black Knight table unscaved by the delivery demons, thank goodness. I had never seen one in person, only pics, boy is this a pce of art. It's absolutely gorgeous, the attention to detail is very impressive.

Two thumbs up to you Thomas! Thank you for taking the time to actually come up with such a design and then executing it.

I got it set up on my Minus K., that was a work out. Putting it in place and then taking it off again, you have to find the centre of gravity for the Minus K. to be effective and work correctly but once done you just forget it.

I also received my TW 10.5 arm, also very nice. I have it mounted but not yet with a cart, I decided to sell my XV-1s latest version so if someone is looking it's currently posted.

I did get my 12" REED arm with MSL BC cart set-up and all I can say is I'm very happy indeed. My system over all has never even come close to sounding like it does currently.