TW Acustic Black Knight

Hi all,
Has anyone heard this new flagship TT from TW Acustic? I have been using the 3-motor Raven AC happily for the last 2 years. Wondering how the new flagship compares with the Raven AC sonically.
Dear Alectiong, I just posted my 'reading' of the German
magazine LP (April 09) with the review of 'Black Knight'
(the'best' TT). If my interpratation of this review is
correct you will be a 'happy fellow'.So no need to worry
about your TT. You can sleep well.
Let's see...Wider and deeper soundstage,Blacker blacks, lower noise floor, More fleshed out instruments, greater air,clear but not harsh highs, tighter bass...STOP ME WHEN THIS STARTS TO SOUND familiar!

The TW Acustic is a beautifully constructed and executed design giving the owner tremendous musicality and PRAT at a "somewhat" sane price!

You have the three motor? Get off the computer and go listen to your vinyl...:)

enough said.
OK, I didn't realize there are already threads on the Black Knight.
I was using the TW Acoustics AC 3 for 13 months then changed it for a Kuzma XL 4 (recommendation from a friend) and i am really happy with its performance. I think the Kuzma turntable is really underrated.
I have heard the blacknight, the one and the AC. In mu opinion the one is the best of the bunch. The rest might be different or even better, but before you spend mega bucks I think there is more to gain in other areas. I think that to enjoy the difference you need a fully acousticly treated room and top of the line amps, cables, etc etc.

Just emptying a bag of money doesn't automaticly creat a great system.

If you heard it at the show in Holland as per TW, the Black Night & AC did not all have the same cartridge & tonearms. In addition, matching phono stage to cartridge was an issue. I am going from memory here, but that is what I remember him saying.

On a different note, the Raven One is that good. A great value and every time I have heard it next to an AC it comes pretty close, especially in show conditions. But don't all us audio fools spend tons for the last bit of information. And is source king or is it the speaker, etc etc? It really depends what level you are going in.
You have a point Dgad, I am not trying to discourage people from buying the Black Night or the AC.What I am trying to say is that just replacing an AC with a Back Night doesn't automatically mean the sound will improve. Like you said arm and cartridge setup are also important and many other factors.

I personally agree with you about upgrades in general. I would say I bat 500 on upgrades being good or bad. With the Raven AC that was one of my lucky ones. I won't list the number of mistakes I made listening to people here on Agon and some reviewers. But... I also benefited highly from some of the advise. The advise, needs to be taken in context of the system & listening biases & experience of the user. I know Thomas' listening biases very well and have heard his system in his house. I also trust him as my recommendations to him to try XYZ have yielded similar opinions. Based on this alone, I trust the Black Night to be an improvement over the AC. He himself finds it a nice improvement over the AC, and hasn't ever told me something is good if it isn't. In fact he has discouraged me from many of my ideas due to his experience. What is funny is that he even accepts when his products don't perform and will admit it, and go the extra mile to satisfy his customer. I know quite a few people who have recieved updates on their equipment even without requesting such.

In the end, I will only know once the Black Night is in my system. I have it scheduled for next month, but might delay it as I find not having to setup a turntable a good opportunity to repaint the room and do some decorating. (difficult to move a turntable around the house w. all the arms etc.) My Raven AC has been sold, but I have a few SACDs which I have listened to next to the exact same LP and know what the differences were. In the end I will know if there is an improvement and how much. Just based on the engineering it should be a marked improvement. The improved Battery PS will yeild darker and quiter backgrounds. The Motor will have even more torque and maybe more speed stability (although I can't imagine how as it is so perfect now, but the upgraded power supply made a easily audible improvement over the original that i would never believe. Also, I have done major cable upgrades to hear no difference. I am the first to admit when I don't hear the difference.) the platter being made from a slab of copper should be a nice improvement as well. Copper has some properties whereby it is the best surface for a turntable. I think more than we realize, it does wonders w. the electrical shielding in equipment and might contribute in this way to the cartridge. Then the plinth is made from anodized aluminum. The material cost alone is susbstantially higher than the Raven AC. I don't know of any turntable manufacturer who has invested so much in the material cost for the construction of a turntable. What does plastic, or acrylic really cost? Anodized aluminum is much more expensive than steel. And then copper is even more expensive. In the Black Night you do get what you pay for in terms of material costs. Does it yield a sonic improvement. I will let my ears be the judge, in my system w. my music. This way I can know for sure. Do I expect it to be much better than the Raven AC. No, the AC is that good already, but if I get a 10-15% improvement in detail, dynamics and air then I will be more than happy. I just don't want to lose the musicality of the system I currently have. TW has had a few people who have listened to the Black Night in his home and have purchased them instantly. One comment was from a Conductor who felt he never heard a violin sound real on any system until he heard it played back w. the Black Night w. the Breuer and Colibri combination. Of course TW's speakers are in a different class than most of ours w. the Cessaro Betas modified w. field coil drivers in one section, and fully active. With his speakers you hear everything. The problem is after listening to the Cessaro's you want them and it takes a while to readjust to what you listen to at home. But horns for me are big & ugly and so there will be no way.
Well there is only one thing left for me to do and that is to congratulate you on a beautiful new turntable. Lets us know how it it is when you have it.
Maybe one day I will be able to afford the TW acustic Raven one.
Dgad, I mean no disrespect at all. In fact, I find you to be a very knowledgeable and reasonable fellow, and I generally find myself agreeing with your comments. But if you re-read your long post above you will find that you have totally convinced yourself on all levels (rational and irrational) that the Black Knight will be audibly superior to your Raven AC. Ergo, I believe you cannot fail to "hear" an improvement. We are only human, after all.

I am both rational & irrational for sure. This hobby is irrational when we spend X $ to listen to music. Yes I am partially convinced. But, I ponder my decisions for long periods of time. Never done based on impulse (always backfires for me.) Cartridges for me are the biggest waste of money. So many are hit & miss for tons of money. And then they brake and where are you. At least a turntable (amy reasonably good one) will last a life time. Don't think much more can be done to improve it in the future.

Actually the question is if you are going to spend your money w. the maximum value where should it be placed? I mean value in terms of not losing your investment.

Digital is the worst investment. Next is a cartridge. I would say turntable & tonearms hold thier value to most, and maybe some classic tube equipment. Holding on to my rational side, your best investment is your health.