Grand Prix Audio Brooklands wall shelf mounted to dedicated studs (i.e. studs which are not otherwise connected to any other part of the wall, only at the floor and ceiling), the studs themselves are further isolated by the addition of Acoustic Sciences Corp stud stabilizers -- these are quite inexpensive and neatly designed devices, if you have a chance to open the wall up and are looking at wall mounting a stand I think you should consider them
I use a Minus K and love it under my Brinkmann Oasis. I used to have a second one under a Clearaudio. You have to weight them to their limit, though, to get best results, and balancing your TT on them can be a little challenging. I use heavy brass discs to distribute the weight. Also, they seem to work better if you put a shelf or platform on top of the top plate--I use a Adona multi-element shelf.
I think a new Vibraplane is $2,000 to $2,500. It is very effective. You should call Sounds of Silence. Steve Klein is a good guy to deal with. I also looked at minus K, but per the note above from wrm57 I decided I did not want to deal with the balancing. The Vibraplane is easy to use and I check the leveling about once a month. It takes about 5 minutes. There is a guy on What's Best Forum that uses a Herzan. They are expensive.
I use extremely low spring rate steel springs for isolating very light things like portable CD players. I use 4 cryo’d high carbon steel springs with medium spring rate for isolating most moderate to lightweight things up to about 40 lb. For heavier things up to say 80 lb I just add another spring for every 10 lb. For really heavy things like big amps and big VPI and Verdier turntables I use Super Stiff Springs, 4 of these babies will isolate things in the range of say 75 lb and 150 lb. For even heavier things add another Super Stiff Spring for every 50 lb. Super Stiff Springs will come cryo’d in the near future. And since these springs are low profile they have excellent lateral support/stability. The reason you have to load the Vibraplane in some cases and the Minus K is because there is a design load based on the spring rate of the device, so to get the lowest possible resonant frequency of the iso device you obviously want to use design load, which is most likely near max load for the design. Air springs have rated max pressure for example.
"Arcicci suspension rack. The top has a 70lb steel platform resting on 3 air bladders, probably overkill for my basis 2200 which is suspended but I love the floating shelves underneath for my components."
Imagine a car, let's say a Rolls Royce, barreling down the road with two shock absorbers attacked in series to each wheel instead of one shock absorber per wheel. It would be a VERY bumpy ride, chaos, since the two shock absorbers would interfere with each other. Same goes for isolating suspended turntables.
I use a Herzan active vibration isolation table for my SOTA Cosmos. It made a surprisingly big difference, I thought, when I installed it ater 3 years of using the Cosmos on a heavy walnut shelf/rack. The unit has lights that show you when each of the different axes of active isolation are actually in use, and they really only go on when I am playing at loud levels with a lot of bass energy. The main table seems to be a heavy aluminum plate on tuned springs, and by itself it makes a clear difference. It just upped the level of transparency in the musical presentation, removing some consistent colorations/resonances that were overlaying the playback. And I could also clearly hear deeper into the music.
I stumbled upon two of these tables on Ebay 6 years ago, mis-labeled, and I bought them for ~$800 total, otherwise I probably would have a hard time justifying them. When they arrived at my workplace on a pallet, we hauled them onto some welded steel tables in our Lab, plugged them in and let them warm up. I then poured 4 cups of water and placed one each on the two Herzan tables, and one each on either side on the Lab tables. I then "tympani rolled" the table tops with my fists and the water danced out of the cups sitting on the Lab tables, but you saw no ripples on the ones on the Herzan tables. I howled with delight! They sure seem effective.
"put your turntable in a ground level room with no basement or suspended floor. Difficult to get a more solid platform."
There’s a lot to be said for shaky and wobbly as in the Flexy Rack of yore. The ease of motion in a particular direction is proportional to the effectiveness of the isolation in that direction. The Earth ’s crust motion forces the entire house structure to move, including the basement concrete slab, like a flea on a wet dog shaking itself.
geoffkait you make a good point. I have tried it both ways and cannot tell (hear) a difference. I have had the table on maple, MDF, and on top of my current rack. The only thing I haven't tried is putting it in the rack on acrylic shelves that are doubled and separated by ceramic balls. I think that could make for human error having to navigate around the table even though the rack is large enough.
My theory is the steel plate is so rigid that the fluid suspended Basis "resonant annihilators" are able to stay linear and do their job - much like the calibrator base does when used. I could be wrong but I still can't hear a difference.
About 5 years ago I sold a dac here on Agon to a guy that designed and built nuclear reactors. I'm personally a renewable energy kinda' guy but suffice it to say he was super smart, obviously knew a ton about engineering and happened to be an audiophile. I figured he was a good person to ask some questions to about the science of audio and the topic of isolation came up. He was convinced, based on pure science and engineering principles that a Vibraplane or equivalent air isolation platform was the only worthy vibration control. He explained that this type of system was able to handle vibration on all axes as opposed to spring, magnetic, polymer, sand etc, which just address up and down but no side movement. This was about 5 years ago so perhaps some other technologies have emerged. I have 3 Vibraplanes from Sounds of Silence. Mine are hooked up to a compressor and made my really awesome system sound even better. As mentioned by others, Steve is a great guy to deal with and although the platforms are a bit of an investment, they're definitely worth it and are the real deal. There's a reason that they're the industry standard for supporting electron microscopes and other vibration sensitive equipment.
The Vibraplane is a spring system too, you know, air being a compressible fluid, so an air spring has a spring rate just like a steel spring and the reason it’s so stable is because it doesn’t isolate in at least some of the rotational directions, it is not free to move easily in those directions, not sure about the twist direction, but probably not. My platform went a lot lower - as low as 0.5 Hz vs 3 Hz for Vibraplane and mine isolated in all 6 - count em - directions. It was also a spring system.
I've used a MANA Acoustics wall mount for years. In spite of various high priced isolation devices which have made a significant difference, there's the weak link: the wall. I've gone over in my mind for years different ways to rebuild the wall. What keeps holding me back is the time it would take me to construct verses the time without my system providing so much joy.
I recently came across Geoffkait's springs and ordered a couple of sets. I put a set of four under my Symposium Ultra that supports a VPI Classic 3 Sig. SE w/ a set of EdenSound Terrastone footers coupled to a set of Stillpoints Ultra SS. I also put a set of four of his cryo'd springs under a BDR platform, in my MANA set-up that supports my EAR 834P w/ Stillpoints minis.
What a difference! First, there is almost no vibration felt through these components now when I touch them. The overall sound: no harshness at all, bass + midbass is so much more resolving. The best under $100.00 I've spent lately, by far.
I have researched the MinusK units and still think at some point they may be an option when I do finally rebuild my supporting wall. I think it would be wise to consult with them on your specific TT and make a custom unit. I'm no longer in any hurry however, to take on the project. Thanks Geoffkait!
As always, please let us know how this works out for you, in your system.
I hope you'll detail your system as much as I have in your upcoming response.
I've since ordered (2) more sets of (4) Super Stiff Springs to isolate my amp/rack...etc......
One thing I find out of the ordinary... among those who have responded... NONE have gone into any real detail, (as I tried to do), regarding their set-up!!. I thought that this was the whole idea of this post, and really, the whole idea of this forum. Why do others not go into more detailed specifics???????????????
Without this, we will not learn easily.
I’m currently in the unenviable position of being between listening rooms. I boxed up everything when I left the desert for the woods (S. Washington state) last month, and am temporarily staying with my sister till I get a place here. I’ll be looking for a place with a room having good dimensions (as close to 1.0 x 1.6 x 2.6 as possible), and big enough for a few pair of planars.
I brought a bunch of CD’s with me, and a nice little Monitor Audio mini-system to listen to them on for now. I’m using the down time to get some new tubes and accessories, like Geoff’s springs. When I get my system set-up here I’ll have to take some pics and post them, though I have mixed feelings about doing so. I enjoy seeing pics of other’s systems, rooms, and music collections, but I’m not sure mine will be of much interest to anyone else! It's rather modest by Audiogon standards, though I do have a pretty nice music collection.