Tubes/SS Power Amps?

Phaelon,

You had the vision and concept. I just took your idea and ran with it, more of an embellisher.

Thanks,
Tim

Orpheus10,

I'm going to give you the advice that, I'm sure, many other readers of this thread are thinking of:

If you want tube flavored sound without the heat of tubes and class A ss amps, you should try out a quality tubed preamp of your choice with a class D ss amp or monoblocs. You didn't mention your budget or other components but here are some good class D amps that may give you what you're searching for:

Acoustic Imagery Atsah monoblocs

Mola-Mola monoblocs

Merrill Audio Veritas monoblocs

All 3 incorporate the latest technology in class D technology, the Hypex Ncore NC1200 switching amp modules. All 3 of these amps have high power capabilities, are generally neutral in sonic nature,run at about room temperature and I think they all are about $10-12,000/pair. Although they each utilize the same Hypex modules, they all also use proprietary methods in their surrounding designs. I've recently become a class D fan after pairing my mid-level tubed preamp with a budget ClassD Audio stereo amp. My amp is not in the same league as the monoblocs I suggested above but I am still more than thrilled with mine, anyway. You should probably give atleast one of these amps a tryout in your system prior to purchasing another amp, IMO. If your speakers require a high powered amp(s), I would even say it's a must audition.

Good luck on your search,
Tim

Atmasphere,

I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts on class D amplification. Have you heard any of the newer class D amps in a good system? How do you think this new technology will affect the tube based amplifier business?

I find it ironic, as others have pointed out on other posts, that the original and oldest hi-fidelity technology (tubes) pairs so well with the latest and newest technology (class D).

I was thinking you could embrace this new technology by doing one or both of the following:

1. Offer a tube preamp that is specically designed for use with class d amplifiers.

2. Offer an Atmasphere class d amp, based on the Hypex Ncore 1200 or possibly the Pascal amp modules, to complement your current and future offerings. You could also use your proprietary designs around these class d modules.

I know a class d amp with a tube input stage/power supply, designed by and sold through Atmasphere, would create a big buzz in the audio world and with your potential customers. I will definitely voluonteer to test out anything you would decide to build.

Basically, seeing you post just got me thinking of possibilities. I'm just very interested in the new class d happenings and thinking out loud. But, in any case, I wish you and your company the best.

Tim

Mapman,

I'm using a lower cost class D amp ($630 ClassD Audio SDS440sc stereo amp rated at 440 watts@4ohms) than you are using but I still notice the same attributes that you described.
When I turn up the volume the sound retains it's balance and there is no compression, clipping or tonal changes. The music just gets louder while exhibiting an effortless quality.

But, what's even more interesting and impressive to me, is that it has this character when turning the volume down, as well. I enjoy this amp, whether with music or ht, much more than my previous amp (Aragon4004 that had similar power but was a class A/B type). I never heard, or at least noticed, any other amplifier type that has such good performance at both low and high volume levels.

Atmasphere,
I am definitely not implying that tube amplification is obsolete. Class D amps, imho, do not sound the same as good tubed amps. There will probably always be users that continue to prefer the virtues of good tube sound, myself included. I've achieved some of the tube sound I prefer by combining a tubed preamp in front of the class D amp.

Class D is so neutral, quiet and clean that I'm probably hearing the sound of my preamp and source more than the sound imparted by my amp. I have noticed an improvovent in sound (more tube like) with the VTL/ClassD Audio combo than my previous VTL/Aragon combo. This was further improved when I recently replaced my preamp's NOS Mullards with a fresh set.

Lastly, I just want to mention the improved bass performance of class D in the bass area of my system's performance. The Aragon had good bass with my inefficient Magnepan 2.7qr spkrs. But I felt the need for more bass and added a subwoofer crossed over at 45hz. When I substituted the CDA for the Aragon, I immediately noticed a slight overemphasis in the low bass region. I turned down the sub's high cut flter down from 45hz to 35 hz and this corrected the issue. I think the class D amp's high Damping Factor (in the thousnds) was the cause of this.

This little CDA amp took control of my spkr's woofer panels like the Aragon was never able to, even though it's 1/3rd the size, weight and price of the Aragon. There wasn't just more bass, the bass was tauter, more textured and more nuanced. I confirmed this by turning my sub off for a few days and didn't really miss it that much. I would loved to have used, or at least tried, a tube amp but my spkrs need too much power to use for both music and ht.

I would think the traditional high end solid-state companies should be more concerned with the improvements in class D technology than the traditional high end tube companies. This is probably reflected in the number of ss companies vs tube companies offering class D amps. On the ss side, Mark Levinson, Rowland, Bel Canto(started as a tube amp maker yrs ago) and, I believe, Cary all have introduced class D amps. The only tube company I'm aware of that currently offers class D amps is ARC. I'm sure others know of a few more on both sides. I was just reading that PS Audio is about to introduce a new class D amp this year, too.

As Mapman and others have pointed out on previous threads, there are a slew of new companies that are just beginning their journeys to possibly becoming traditional high end companies utilizing the new class D technology; W4S, Merrill Audio, Mola-Mola, Acoustic Imagery, PS Audio, etc.

I'm sure there will be more companies jumping on the bandwagon.

IMHO, class D just has too much going for it (good and improving sound quality, small size and weight, very efficient, very powerful, relatively low cost, cool running, neutral sound character) for it not to be the wave of the future. I really do hope you decide to jump on this juggernaut bandwagon while there's still some room on it.

Best wishes,
Tim

Phaelon,

Great idea, I think you're definitely on to something.

I can't think of a better company to expand/perfect your concept and make it a reality than Atmasphere. I bet they could start brainstorming design possibilities Monday morning. It'll probably take until the end of the year to build, test and evaluate a few different design prototypes, however.

Once the best prototype is determined, it'll probably take approx. 6 months to work out parts' sourcing, costs, pricing and marketing strategy.

Then another few months to determine and document a Bill of Materials, manufacturing instructions and QA procedures.

So, all told and if there are no stumbling blocks, it may be possible for the first lot of Atmasphere's game changing Hybrid Tube-Class D amps to roll off the production line sometime by the end of 2014 or beginning of 2015.

Ralph,

As I'm sure you know,I'm just having a little fun. I'm watching the final rounds of the NFL draft and there's a lot of time between picks. However and FWIW, I think lot of people would love this to become be a reality.

I even have a marketing slogan idea:

"Same great quality and performance of Atmasphere,
Just with a less heated atmosphere."

If you ever do decide to build this world-beater amp, please pm me when you're ready to send me the production prototype for in-home testing.

I won't charge you for the testing but I won't pull any punches when I post my review here on Audiogon, either.

Thank you

Tim

"I've been looking at methods of incorporating more tubes into the process. There is even a method of using a power tube for output switching.... the problem with using them though is you can see through your hands when the amp is on."
Atmasphere (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

Atmasphere,
Can you elaborate on your comment of "the problem with using them though is you can see through yourhands when the amp is on"? I'm not quite grasping the meaning, sounds like engineer slang for transparent but I'm not sure.

Thanks,
Tim

Atmasphere,

Ah, very good and funny, too.

Thanks,
Tim