Tube Rolling for Pre-amps?


I have an Audio Research LS-16 that feeds a Madrigal Proceed HPA2 solid state amp. 

I did not choose this equipment; it was given to me. From what I can tell the original owner spent a good bit of time matching up these two components with the speakers, Aerial Acoustics 7Bs.

The tubes in the AR are original. Probably 10-15 years old? But with an extended period of not being used.

The system sounds good to me. I don't need to change anything.

However, I've been told that the tubes are old and may need to be replaced soon. I've also read a little bit about tube rolling but most of the articles I've seen talk mostly about tube rolling with amps and not pre-amps.

So I have some questions:

1) If the original owner wanted a system that sounded like a 'tube' system, why not have a tube amp and pre-amp? Does it make sense to have a tube pre but SS amp?

2) Other than outright failure, how will I know if my tubes _need_ to be replaced?

3) With a SS amp, will changing tubes in the pre-amp have a noticeable impact on SQ? In other words, is tube rolling for a pre-amp played through a SS amp a thing?

4) For someone like myself who is happy with the system and who is also easily frustrated by A/B testing is tube rolling the pre-amp even worthwhile? I can almost always hear a change when comparing various components but only rarely am able to say A is better or worse than B.

( I probably can't even articulate effectively what I look for in terms of SQ except that I like the bass to be tight, precise, well defined and not boomy. I do not like the music to be overly bright or tinny. I like depth and lushness but not overly warm. Not sure if these are things you alter with tubes.)

Thanks for any advice.


n80

Showing 9 responses by mofimadness

These were the best tubes I tried in my LS16MKI when I had it.

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/vacuum-tubes/products/matsushita-national-pcc88-7dj8?varian...

I tried a lot of different tubes with all my ARC gear.  These are really, really good and aren't that expensive.

I was lucky and started buying tubes over 40 years ago when they weren't in vogue like they are now and were cheap.  I have drawers full of tubes.  Could probably retire on what they are worth now...
I also have some deoxidizing spray that I used to clean and repair the pots on my old receiver. Should I apply this to the pins?

I have always been told not to do this.  I tried something many years ago and it ruined not only the tubes, but the tube sockets had to be replaced.  I don't remember what it was, (might have been "TWEEK").  I'm sure others have had different results...
The tubes that the LS16 uses are 9 pin.  Once you turn the tube over, you will see that there are in a circle pattern with a gap between.  Align that gap with the gap in the tube socket and push down firmly until it seats.  I usually will put in and pull out a tube several times to make sure that if there was any residue on the pins, it gets scraped off with a few rotations.

I wear gloves, I was always told that the oil from your fingers will make the tube burn uneven, but Kevin Deal, (probably knows more about tubes than anyone I've meet), says that's bunk.  I still wear them.

You do not normally bias a preamp tube.  So no worries.

This is me, but I would always replace all (4) tubes at one time and all need to be the same.  Yes, there are exceptions, but mixing tubes in this matter, often leads to poor performance.  (I am talking about the OP's ARC LS16 preamp and nothing else because I know that it can vary widely, but this pertains to the LS16).

So yes, get the tubes as close to each other as possible.
rodman99999....that's very nice of you!  Those are very decent tubes, so @n80 should hear an improvement with those.

I love this community!
Was it Kevin, that mentioned having all four of your LS-16’s tubes matched? If so- did he elaborate? Just curious(he does know his stuff).

No, he never said anything about the LS16.  That's just my opinion, just like your opinion on mixing and matching.  I think, that on this preamp, it's not a good idea, but again, it's just my opinion.  I was only an ARC dealer for many years and have owned almost all the preamps that they have made, but, again, this is my experience only.

Some of the older tube preamps benefited greatly from mixing and matching, so it really depends on the circuit.

@n80...Nothing wrong with trying, just don't drive yourself crazy.  Yes, it can and will happen  :-)
I've had good luck on E-Bay, but I've heard horror stories also.

Here are a few of the top rated tube dealers:

Brent Jesse
Upscale Audio (Kevin Deal)
The Tube Depot
The Tube Store
Jim McShane
Vintage Tube Services (Andy)
 
There are more, but these seem to be discussed the most.
To be clear, there is no harm to the unit in using different brands (in pairs as mentioned above)? If I broke this thing I'm sure I'd have a hard to paying for repairs!

There is absolutely nothing you could do mixing and matching tubes to damage your preamp. 

I'd sure take rodman up on his offer.
I got very lucky many years ago and ran into a dude that had several master cartons of Amperex USN-CEP 7308 Gold Pins and he was looking to just unload them, (pretty sure he didn't have a clue of what he had).  I bought 10 or 12 pair of them.  GREAT tubes.
They kept asking, "Are we there yet?", all the way to the Post Office.

Damn tubes :-)