Tube Rolling for Pre-amps?


I have an Audio Research LS-16 that feeds a Madrigal Proceed HPA2 solid state amp. 

I did not choose this equipment; it was given to me. From what I can tell the original owner spent a good bit of time matching up these two components with the speakers, Aerial Acoustics 7Bs.

The tubes in the AR are original. Probably 10-15 years old? But with an extended period of not being used.

The system sounds good to me. I don't need to change anything.

However, I've been told that the tubes are old and may need to be replaced soon. I've also read a little bit about tube rolling but most of the articles I've seen talk mostly about tube rolling with amps and not pre-amps.

So I have some questions:

1) If the original owner wanted a system that sounded like a 'tube' system, why not have a tube amp and pre-amp? Does it make sense to have a tube pre but SS amp?

2) Other than outright failure, how will I know if my tubes _need_ to be replaced?

3) With a SS amp, will changing tubes in the pre-amp have a noticeable impact on SQ? In other words, is tube rolling for a pre-amp played through a SS amp a thing?

4) For someone like myself who is happy with the system and who is also easily frustrated by A/B testing is tube rolling the pre-amp even worthwhile? I can almost always hear a change when comparing various components but only rarely am able to say A is better or worse than B.

( I probably can't even articulate effectively what I look for in terms of SQ except that I like the bass to be tight, precise, well defined and not boomy. I do not like the music to be overly bright or tinny. I like depth and lushness but not overly warm. Not sure if these are things you alter with tubes.)

Thanks for any advice.


n80

Showing 7 responses by lowrider57

I'll add to @djohnson54 comments. I'm an avid tube roller. At one time I was addicted to rolling NOS preamp tubes when I had a SS amp. 
Depending on the design of the preamp, rolling in a different brand or style of tube can make a significant difference to the overall sonics of a system. Characteristics such as dynamics, transparency, soundstage can all be affected. Many audioholics change tubes to take the edge off the highs, or conversely to add extension and "air."  The caveat is that the amp will play a role in how much of a change in sonics you hear. Your SS amp must be revealing enough to hear the changes from the preamp. But you will hear a difference in preamp SQ or sound signature.

Preamp tubes do last a long time; thousands of hours if purchased from a reputable dealer. A dying tube can become noisy or microphonic. But IME, you can tell when a tube has reached its life expectancy when your music begins to sound dull. There may be less extension, a flat image, or less colour or drive to the music.

I'm a firm believer in having a set of spare tubes on hand. For this reason maybe you should start shopping for a replacement set.


n80, you have no baseline or reference to judge the SQ of your preamp.

That’s a good description of Siemens. Where are you looking for tubes and which tube type is $40-70 each? There are 6DJ8, 6922, and 7DJ8 variants.
Check Brent Jessee’s selection. Trustworthy seller with good pricing.


You should have a spare set of tubes as I and others have stated. I like the idea of comparing the new pair with yours, then use the tubes that sound best.

Even though your preamp may have sat idle for a long period, the former owner may have put a lot of hours on his system. Or he could have left the preamp powered up for long periods of time.

@n80, as far as pricing, these tubes are $200+ for 1960s NOS.
They are premium military grade, made in USA, with white lettering (orange lettering cost less). Low noise and should last for years.

Just to give you an idea of pricing when you shop for a 2nd pair:
Brent Jessee offers...
E88CC / 6922 Amperex white PQ type, white label, USA made, gold pins.MATCHED PAIRS. $230.

The PQ version has the same sonics as the Amperex JAN. You may see a pair with one JAN tube matched with a JAN USN. They are the same tube, the USN was sold to the US Navy and are very rare nowadays.

A very generous offer by Rodman.

@rodman99999  I also had a pair of 6922's; one JAN and one USN matched. Later I upgraded to a pair of Amperex 7308 PQ USA, $400 pair, all from Brent Jesse. The 7308 have the same liquid sonics, but with awesome bass impact. Mine are matched 1960 & 63. These Amperex (and Philips) are so rare that different years must be tested to find a matched pair.

Use the silicone rings (dampers) if you want to tighten up the bass. And you may not need to use both dampers.
As long as the tonal quality of individual instruments is accurate you may not need any dampers.