You didn't satte a proice range, but generally Rogue gear is highly regarded. I have a pair of 120 Magnums, and they are sweeeeet.
I know, you were aking on pre's.
Might want to look in a 66 or a 99 (I'll be considering the 99 Magnum in the near future.
I can tell you, tubes are whole different experince. You will fall in love.
Generally,either having a tube preamp or amp mixed with the solid state piece gives superior results.You get the best of both worlds.The most widely mix is tube pre,with solid state amp.I have gotten great results the other way around though.
I agree a tube pre would be a great place to start getting into tubed gear. I would look into BAT tubed pre's, everyone that I know who has one loves them; there are also GREAT things said about the Supertak?? pre it is the item being talked about in the thread entitled "Pre amp deal of the century" look into it- that may be the way to go! Personally I prefer(if solid state must be in the mix) a ss pre and a tube amp, but a tube pre is a good place to start :) Happy Hunting ~Tim
Good question.I also heard that a tube preamp,especially with a Bryston 4B ST,is the way to go.
I'm currently running a ss Bryston BP-25 pre with my 4B st.
I like what I hear but if it can be better...
Will certainly keep an eye on this post.
Just out of curiosity, why do you want a preamp? Do you have another source? If not, I would just spend the money that you would have spent on the preamp and upgrade the amp or CDP. I also run my CDP direct to my amp and am very happy with the sound as-is.
What about a *hybrid* preamp? Why not get the best of both worlds?
I think hybrid is where it's at...
Forget the pre. Keep your Miles going direct, I do. (If you get the appropriate listening levels.) If not, go for a BAT tube pre.
I believe the answer depends on two issues:
1. What is your price range for a preamp? As this will perhaps determine or limit the sonic qualities you are seeking.
2. What is your listening preference? Warmth and bloom and/or detail and transparency? Some to many tubes (in my limited experience) focus on warmth and 3-D bloom primarily in the midrange frequencies with light to serious roll offs at the frequency extreme highs and lows producing what what might consider a somewhat subdued sound. Whereas some to many solid state units focus on detail and transparency across a much greater frequency range but can easily lack warmth and bloom and may even be considered flat or suppressed in the very critical midrange region.
If your budget is very tight, and you are seeking detail over all else, you may want to entertain the solid state route first to see what you come up with. As your budget increases you should be able to venture more easily into either camp with fewer compromises that are supposedly typical of tubes and solid state but it's not a guarantee.
Again, my experience with tubes (and solid state for that matter) is quite limited but based on that experience and my readings, I believe the above to be true. Otherwise I'd change my opinion. :)
Thaks for your all suggestions. I did not expected to get
this fast respond. My Budget is around $1000-$2000 new or used. The reason that I want to add a pre amp because I feel like something is missing when I listen to musics. I think it is a bit bright right now and I want something warmth. I heard that tube amps make hum noise, is it true? I consider to go with tube ampe but I do not want to deal with hum noise. If you guy have any more suggestions, feel fee to leave your suddestions. I love to read and learn more about high-end stuff.
Thefalls1117- How does the bryston Bryston BP-25 sound in your system? I would like to know.
As mentioned before I certainly like my Brystons..BP-25..4B ST..could it sound better..you betcha,if I spend thousands of $$$$$$$$$ more..which at this point I'm not willing to spend.
I am very happy with the sound of my present system.I updated to the best of my ability and am always tweaking.
Let your ears be your guide..not to mention your pocket book.
There will ALWAYS be better...........
That's true of the Rogues, neronian.
Have to use cheater plugs, could not trace hum down.
Also, the power supply make a slight buzz, and the amps pick up so RFI.
You have to be very close to the amps or speakers to notice, and it has to be very quite. But those noises are there.
To curb a bit of the brighness in your system, you might want to try another pair of interconnects. It appears that your interconnects are silver which from what I understand can lead to a bright sound in some systems.
You might try a used pair of Harmonic Technology Pro Silway Mk II interconnects which combine copper and silver in a single crystal technology. They are very detailed but in my system do not appear to be bright.
A used 1meter pair go for about $175 -$225 on audiogon.com.
If this does not cure your problem or perhaps another interconnect, then you should be able to sell the cables pretty much for what you bought them and then investigate the preamp.
Also, you might consider doing some research on room acoustics. Perhaps your room has a very 'live' sound and therefore bright sounds could tend to be overly bright.
-IMO (whose were you expecting?)
I agree with Stehno, if your trying to take the edge off, the cheapest route would be to change interconnects. You might even try all copper. Cardas would definetely take the edge off, they are sweet. " IMHO "
The Rogue and the BAT are good suggestions for tube pre's. I think bewteen the two you will find BAT sweeter ( in your price range ) The BAT VK3i can be bought between $800-1250 used.
I too like the tube pre/ss amp combo. I also agree with stehno. My suggestion is to audition a aes(cary) AE-3. This pre can come as a kit(if you are so inclined) or from the factory. It has upgrade features and it's a triode design. This as I have written before to me is the best bang for the buck pre out there. In addition it only uses two tubes. Good hunting!
I used to own a BP-25 with my 4B-ST amp and the BP-25 is dead quiet and neutral to the max - what you send in is what comes out. I preferred the sound once I inserted a Rogue 66 linestage with Mullard tubes. If I were to compare the two preamps I would liken the BP-25 to a black & white HDTV - every detail but after a time became sterile. The Rogue is like a great color TV (Non-HD) - less detail but with the "color" can be viewed for longer periods without fatigue. But hey thats just my system and my ears, the BP-25/4B-ST combo has rec'd many great reviews.
If it were me I would look for either a Magnum version 66 or get a cheap 66 (about $650 used) and have Rogue "magnum" it for $250. Conversely you could find a Rogue 99 within your budget and if lucky maybe a used Magnum 99. Good luck!
I am using a Sonic Frontiers Line 3 to drive my Bryston 4B ST. Overall, I am very pleased with the results. From what Tfalls writes it sounds like the Bryston 25 will work fine as well. A check of the ads shows that a used Line 3 can be had for around $2200 plus shipping. The Bryston 25 will probably sell for less. I personally don't think that changing you interconnects out will make a noticeable difference unless the ones you currently using have low grade connectors. Good luck.
I bought an Audible Illusions Mod 3 (not 3A) for $650 to use as a "stopgap" until my turn in the long Supratek line comes around. I am pairing it with solid state monoblocks and must say that it is probably the best bargain I have seen so far in high end. I considered the Rogue as well and think you would most likely be happy going in either direction. I have been delighted with the performance of the M3, which includes a very good phono stage. FWIW, I had the Vienna Beethovens in my system until I upgraded to Piega P10s. I think you will enjoy what tubes will do for the Beethovens, which are great speakers. I think you are putting together a very nice system.
For my listening tastes, mixing tubes and solid state is the way to go.
I started with all tubes from cd player to amp. I called solid state SS amps I was so unenamored with them. When I got some decidedly inefficient speakers, I started looking for a replacement. Powerful tube amps are so expensive. A friend who builds his own class A amps told me not to think twice and buy the Pass Labs X150 and a Pass Labs Aleph P if I couldn't afford their current X pre amps. Being tubular, I went only part way. I decided to keep tubes in the cd player and pre amp and bought a Sonic Frontiers Line 1 to go with the Pass X150. Overall, I was happy with the system, except the mids were a bit chalky. Of course I immediately held the SS amp guilty. My amp builder friend told me not so, it had to be the pre amp and I should get the Aleph P. So I did. He was right on all the way. When I was running all tubes, I loved the liquid mids, and shimmering highs. I also enjoyed the well articulated bass. What I didn't like was the back ground sweetened broth that held the music fast to the speakers. I thought, I just wanted the realness of tubes, but for it to jump out naked at me from darkness. Now with the tubed cd player, and Pass X150 and Pass Aleph P that is exactly what I have.
Moral: If you know someone out there that is a wizened audiophile, listen to him/her, it will save you big bucks.
Thanks for all the input. Can any body tell me the characteristic between Rogue, Bat , Audible illusions and Sonic fontia in general.